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The argument is that it is obviously never easy to make money in a transparent market - because SOMEONE with money would do it until the prices adapt. The diffe

by netrus 4y ago

The argument is that it is obviously never easy to make money in a transparent market - because SOMEONE with money would do it until the prices adapt. The difference between todays spot market and futures tells you something about the challenge to provide additional storage at scale.

guerrilla 4y ago
> because SOMEONE with money would do it until the prices adapt But they are. Your premise is wrong. This just headlined the Financial times 2 days ago[1]. This and the last quarter have been record profits for energy companies and that's not even counting local profits, which are also at record heights. 1. https://www.ft.com/content/0d84255c-84ba-4462-b80a-8593352852e2 https://www.ft.com/content/0d84255c-84ba-4462-b80a-859335285...
- netrus 4y ago
  Well of course they makes record profits, something they have increased in value (storage, stock, permits...) But they cannot buy more gas now and sell in the future than they already do - as we can see from the prices.
- gorkish 4y ago
  Someone at some point is gonna have to start defining what the hell "record profits" actually means and why it's good for some companies to make "record profits" out of nothing but hype and bad for other companies to make "record profits" because they were smart about holding their previously money-losing gas investments until a more favorable economic condition. Gas is still trading worldwide at a price far below it's 6:1 energy value relative to oil, so IMO everyone needs to stuff this "record profits" line right back up their ass where they got it in the first place. There's not a gas shortage; gas is still overproduced and dirt cheap. We do however seem to be long on crybabies that can't buy it at 20:1 anymore. Financially and politically punishing domestic producers in Europe and the West led to this problem in the first place where it's simply not possible to be price competitive with Russia and the Middle East where the labor, environmental and regulatory standards to produce it are weak or ignored. Nobody seems to give one shit about how much "profit" those suppliers make from the sales, consequences be damned, so long as they give the best price.
  - oceanplexian 4y ago
    People seem to forget that the same oil companies that are making record profits were nearly made insolvent by government lockdowns during COVID. Oil and gas prices were rising long before Russia invaded Ukraine. Of course they are going to raise prices, since the government artificially created so much volatility. The sanctions on Russia only made the situation that was already unfolding much worse. Unfortunately, people complain that the government needs to intervene fix a problem that governments were responsible for creating, while using Russia as a smokescreen for the terrible government policies that got us where we are in the first place.
- benj111 4y ago
  Why is the premise wrong? Do you not think gas producers are looking to increase production, LNG terminals and shipping?

by netrus 4y ago

guerrilla 4y ago

> because SOMEONE with money would do it until the prices adapt But they are. Your premise is wrong. This just headlined the Financial times 2 days ago[1]. This and the last quarter have been record profits for energy companies and that's not even counting local profits, which are also at record heights. 1. https://www.ft.com/content/0d84255c-84ba-4462-b80a-8593352852e2 https://www.ft.com/content/0d84255c-84ba-4462-b80a-859335285...

netrus 4y ago
Well of course they makes record profits, something they have increased in value (storage, stock, permits...) But they cannot buy more gas now and sell in the future than they already do - as we can see from the prices.
gorkish 4y ago
Someone at some point is gonna have to start defining what the hell "record profits" actually means and why it's good for some companies to make "record profits" out of nothing but hype and bad for other companies to make "record profits" because they were smart about holding their previously money-losing gas investments until a more favorable economic condition. Gas is still trading worldwide at a price far below it's 6:1 energy value relative to oil, so IMO everyone needs to stuff this "record profits" line right back up their ass where they got it in the first place. There's not a gas shortage; gas is still overproduced and dirt cheap. We do however seem to be long on crybabies that can't buy it at 20:1 anymore. Financially and politically punishing domestic producers in Europe and the West led to this problem in the first place where it's simply not possible to be price competitive with Russia and the Middle East where the labor, environmental and regulatory standards to produce it are weak or ignored. Nobody seems to give one shit about how much "profit" those suppliers make from the sales, consequences be damned, so long as they give the best price.
- oceanplexian 4y ago
  People seem to forget that the same oil companies that are making record profits were nearly made insolvent by government lockdowns during COVID. Oil and gas prices were rising long before Russia invaded Ukraine. Of course they are going to raise prices, since the government artificially created so much volatility. The sanctions on Russia only made the situation that was already unfolding much worse. Unfortunately, people complain that the government needs to intervene fix a problem that governments were responsible for creating, while using Russia as a smokescreen for the terrible government policies that got us where we are in the first place.
benj111 4y ago
Why is the premise wrong? Do you not think gas producers are looking to increase production, LNG terminals and shipping?