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Ada had many good ideas, but I can’t imagine using it for anything but existing large legacy code bases. I am impressed by the Swift language: nice REPL based

Ada had many good ideas, but I can’t imagine using it for anything but existing large legacy code bases. I am impressed by the Swift language: nice REPL based development if you want that, typed, great support for Apple devices and some support for Linux.

yjftsjthsd-h 4y ago
Er, does Swift have any of Ada's safety properties or proof tooling?
3a2d29 4y ago
Isn’t reference counting a type of garbage collection? I feel like you can’t put Swift in the world of Rust/Ada/C/C++
- q-big 4y ago
  > Isn’t reference counting a type of garbage collection? Reference counting leads to memory leaks if cycles occur. Garbage collection algorithms don't have this problem.
  - 3a2d29 4y ago
    I checked and you are not correct. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Garbage_collection_(computer_science)#Reference_counting https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Garbage_collection_(computer... Reference counting is a type of garbage collection.
    - q-big 4y ago
      On the other hand: "Garbage collection vs. ARC" https://atp.fm/205-chris-lattner-interview-transcript#gc https://atp.fm/205-chris-lattner-interview-transcript#gc (Hacker News: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=31139610 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=31139610) This (sub)headline only makes sense if garbage collection and ARC are different concepts.
      - 3a2d29 4y ago
        Hmm I think they are referring to GC as “traditional” GC, but I will concede that they don’t seem to say that.
- mark_l_watson 4y ago
  True enough. I probably should not have inserted Swift into an Ada conversation. BTW, I am a Lisp developer, but some reason I find Swift palatable.
- pjmlp 4y ago
  It is, and for Apple, it is the successor of their system languages, explicitly stated on Swift documentation. Here enjoy a full graphical workstation OS developed at Xerox PARC, Mesa/Cedar uses reference counting with a cycle collector. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z_dt7NG38V4 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z_dt7NG38V4
wiseowise 4y ago
> Swift > REPL based What?
- mark_l_watson 4y ago
  I don’t use Swift very often, but when I do, I use the REPL to experiment with new code snippets, just as I would for Lisp languages, Julia, or Python.

yjftsjthsd-h 4y ago

Er, does Swift have any of Ada's safety properties or proof tooling?

3a2d29 4y ago

Isn’t reference counting a type of garbage collection? I feel like you can’t put Swift in the world of Rust/Ada/C/C++

q-big 4y ago
> Isn’t reference counting a type of garbage collection? Reference counting leads to memory leaks if cycles occur. Garbage collection algorithms don't have this problem.
- 3a2d29 4y ago
  I checked and you are not correct. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Garbage_collection_(computer_science)#Reference_counting https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Garbage_collection_(computer... Reference counting is a type of garbage collection.
  - q-big 4y ago
    On the other hand: "Garbage collection vs. ARC" https://atp.fm/205-chris-lattner-interview-transcript#gc https://atp.fm/205-chris-lattner-interview-transcript#gc (Hacker News: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=31139610 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=31139610) This (sub)headline only makes sense if garbage collection and ARC are different concepts.
    - 3a2d29 4y ago
      Hmm I think they are referring to GC as “traditional” GC, but I will concede that they don’t seem to say that.
mark_l_watson 4y ago
True enough. I probably should not have inserted Swift into an Ada conversation. BTW, I am a Lisp developer, but some reason I find Swift palatable.
pjmlp 4y ago
It is, and for Apple, it is the successor of their system languages, explicitly stated on Swift documentation. Here enjoy a full graphical workstation OS developed at Xerox PARC, Mesa/Cedar uses reference counting with a cycle collector. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z_dt7NG38V4 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z_dt7NG38V4

wiseowise 4y ago

> Swift > REPL based What?

mark_l_watson 4y ago
I don’t use Swift very often, but when I do, I use the REPL to experiment with new code snippets, just as I would for Lisp languages, Julia, or Python.