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Ada is one of those languages that I really like in theory, but don’t really get to use it because I’m usually better off picking something else (for any number

Ada is one of those languages that I really like in theory, but don’t really get to use it because I’m usually better off picking something else (for any number of reasons, but right tool for the job, y’know)

mark_l_watson 4y ago
Ada had many good ideas, but I can’t imagine using it for anything but existing large legacy code bases. I am impressed by the Swift language: nice REPL based development if you want that, typed, great support for Apple devices and some support for Linux.
- yjftsjthsd-h 4y ago
  Er, does Swift have any of Ada's safety properties or proof tooling?
- 3a2d29 4y ago
  Isn’t reference counting a type of garbage collection? I feel like you can’t put Swift in the world of Rust/Ada/C/C++
  - q-big 4y ago
    > Isn’t reference counting a type of garbage collection? Reference counting leads to memory leaks if cycles occur. Garbage collection algorithms don't have this problem.
    - 3a2d29 4y ago
      I checked and you are not correct. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Garbage_collection_(computer_science)#Reference_counting https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Garbage_collection_(computer... Reference counting is a type of garbage collection.
      - q-big 4y ago
        On the other hand: "Garbage collection vs. ARC" https://atp.fm/205-chris-lattner-interview-transcript#gc https://atp.fm/205-chris-lattner-interview-transcript#gc (Hacker News: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=31139610 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=31139610) This (sub)headline only makes sense if garbage collection and ARC are different concepts.
        3a2d29 4y ago
        Hmm I think they are referring to GC as “traditional” GC, but I will concede that they don’t seem to say that.
  - mark_l_watson 4y ago
    True enough. I probably should not have inserted Swift into an Ada conversation. BTW, I am a Lisp developer, but some reason I find Swift palatable.
  - pjmlp 4y ago
    It is, and for Apple, it is the successor of their system languages, explicitly stated on Swift documentation. Here enjoy a full graphical workstation OS developed at Xerox PARC, Mesa/Cedar uses reference counting with a cycle collector. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z_dt7NG38V4 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z_dt7NG38V4
- wiseowise 4y ago
  > Swift > REPL based What?
  - mark_l_watson 4y ago
    I don’t use Swift very often, but when I do, I use the REPL to experiment with new code snippets, just as I would for Lisp languages, Julia, or Python.
tgsovlerkhgsel 4y ago
In the end, how many people "speak" a language matters a lot more than its properties, both in the real world (compare Esperanto and other designed languages vs. English) and with programming languages. If language A is "better" but language B has all the libraries and developers, the right choice is usually still B.
- wiseowise 4y ago
  Not if language A pays twice language B.

mark_l_watson 4y ago

Ada had many good ideas, but I can’t imagine using it for anything but existing large legacy code bases. I am impressed by the Swift language: nice REPL based development if you want that, typed, great support for Apple devices and some support for Linux.

yjftsjthsd-h 4y ago
Er, does Swift have any of Ada's safety properties or proof tooling?
3a2d29 4y ago
Isn’t reference counting a type of garbage collection? I feel like you can’t put Swift in the world of Rust/Ada/C/C++
- q-big 4y ago
  > Isn’t reference counting a type of garbage collection? Reference counting leads to memory leaks if cycles occur. Garbage collection algorithms don't have this problem.
  - 3a2d29 4y ago
    I checked and you are not correct. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Garbage_collection_(computer_science)#Reference_counting https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Garbage_collection_(computer... Reference counting is a type of garbage collection.
    - q-big 4y ago
      On the other hand: "Garbage collection vs. ARC" https://atp.fm/205-chris-lattner-interview-transcript#gc https://atp.fm/205-chris-lattner-interview-transcript#gc (Hacker News: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=31139610 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=31139610) This (sub)headline only makes sense if garbage collection and ARC are different concepts.
      - 3a2d29 4y ago
        Hmm I think they are referring to GC as “traditional” GC, but I will concede that they don’t seem to say that.
- mark_l_watson 4y ago
  True enough. I probably should not have inserted Swift into an Ada conversation. BTW, I am a Lisp developer, but some reason I find Swift palatable.
- pjmlp 4y ago
  It is, and for Apple, it is the successor of their system languages, explicitly stated on Swift documentation. Here enjoy a full graphical workstation OS developed at Xerox PARC, Mesa/Cedar uses reference counting with a cycle collector. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z_dt7NG38V4 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z_dt7NG38V4
wiseowise 4y ago
> Swift > REPL based What?
- mark_l_watson 4y ago
  I don’t use Swift very often, but when I do, I use the REPL to experiment with new code snippets, just as I would for Lisp languages, Julia, or Python.

tgsovlerkhgsel 4y ago

In the end, how many people "speak" a language matters a lot more than its properties, both in the real world (compare Esperanto and other designed languages vs. English) and with programming languages. If language A is "better" but language B has all the libraries and developers, the right choice is usually still B.

wiseowise 4y ago
Not if language A pays twice language B.