4 ms·

I understand the concern, but is it that different from early 90s internet spread of drugs made of bananas or even before that urban legends? I know that it is

I understand the concern, but is it that different from early 90s internet spread of drugs made of bananas or even before that urban legends? I know that it is easier to ban stuff than teach critical thinking skills, but I genuinely think the latter is preferable long term. In my defense, my kid is still too young to engage in this stuff so that might be the reason I am less alarmed. I hate to say it, but my parents did a fair amount of watching with us and they tried to put things in context ( I still remember my dad scolding me after I repeated blatant propaganda line I heard on the news ). The time you spend correcting your kid is not wasted.

rchaud 4y ago
Urban legends were spread by word of mouth, like Marilyn Manson removing two ribs so he could self-fellate. We'd hear it from 'that guy' at school, laugh and get on with our day. TikTok is that guy today, and unlike the '90s, he lives in your pocket and can deliver other such interesting tidbits on a variety of topics, 24 hours a day.
- A4ET8a8uTh0 4y ago
  So urban legends are more accessible now. It only adds more of a responsibility on parents to either spend time with their kids and put TikTok vids in context or just let them be exposed to all the garbage out there. It is not that different from the TV panic. There are differences, but similarities are striking.
  - hoseja 4y ago
    Or the difference is as between wild-type Staphylococcus aureus and MRSA.
  - rchaud 4y ago
    TV is moderated by the FCC's broadcast standards, delivers the same content to everyone and is finite in quantity. Tiktok is none of those things.
    - A4ET8a8uTh0 4y ago
      This may be where ( and why ) we differ. I do not consider FCC to be, well, useful. It was not useful during Carlin's words you can't say on TV. It is certainly even less useful now. I am confused. Are you arguing for social media government oversight?
walthamstow 4y ago
What if the parent isn't informed enough or, frankly, isn't smart enough to correct their child, add context and teach critical thinking?
- A4ET8a8uTh0 4y ago
  I honestly have no good answer here. Mind is a terrible thing to waste and I do not want those to fall through the cracks just because parents are idiots. Natural response is to put limits on what parents can do. Here is the problem though. Some people would likely disagree with what I would want to instill in my child. Since that is the case, I accept that parent's freedom will sometimes yield results that are suboptimal ( wasted child's potential ). Beyond that.. what can we do? I would not mind effectively forcing 230 to make all platforms define themselves as publishers or not. Clearly, some sort of re-alignment is needed. Maybe we could force everyone to think twice before posting anything on the net? As you can see, I do not know what the answer is. All I can do is what is best for my family.
ragnese 4y ago
> I understand the concern, but is it that different from early 90s internet spread of drugs made of bananas or even before that urban legends? Well, yes. In the 90s, the speed at which I could acquire stupid ideas from the internet was still VASTLY slower than today. First, I had to actually get home from school and sit in front of a computer because I didn't have an internet-connected device in my pocket at all times. This meant that I couldn't be absorbing nonsense during car rides or dinner time, either. Then, I had to make sure that my family members weren't using the telephone. And while there were lots of questionable forum-style websites, there wasn't like a single-digit number of hubs online where everyone got the same nonsense info at the same time, or where someone who produces said nonsense would know to go to maximize their reach. I would say that information moves much faster today than it has even when Facebook unseated MySpace (which was well after the 90s). > I know that it is easier to ban stuff than teach critical thinking skills, but I genuinely think the latter is preferable long term. Sure, and I didn't suggest otherwise. Education is the most important and resilient way to combat all kinds of terrible ideas. However, the concern I expressed in my comment was specifically about children. Children can't be educated almost by definition- it takes time to become educated and well-versed in basic logic and reasoning. I'm fortunate that my step-son found this information "interesting" enough to share with us so that I had the opportunity to explain to him that the vast majority of content being shared with him is from non-experts or people who are actively trying to manipulate people into agreeing with them on something. Did he take that to heart? Not really; because it happened multiple times and I had roughly the same conversation with him multiple times. He's not there yet in his education. And then there's the other issue of the adults that are consuming and spreading nonsense at record speed. And a lot of that nonsense is currently aiming to turn people AGAINST science and education. "Those damn academics are lying to us!", "Don't trust your kids around teachers- they're 'groomers'!", etc. I don't know what the answer is, but I don't feel good about the future for our kids.
- A4ET8a8uTh0 4y ago
  <<because I didn't have an internet-connected device in my pocket at all times. The worst part is that I almost completely agree with you, because I am almost certain I will be facing similar hurdles. That said, if the issue is the internet connected device, isn't an instant 'fix' to replace said device with one with no access and then take school to task to enforce similar ban ( the most common objections I heard was:'i need to be able to reach my kid in case of emergency'; dumb phones still exist so that could work? Ehh, I can already tell local PTA will hate me.
pixl97 4y ago
> but is it that different from early 90s The question is, "Is quantity a quality itself?" And while yes, there were plenty of bullshit urban legends and propaganda pieces (generally from ones own government) out there, 'plenty' was still a rather limited number. I'm not sure how old your kid is, but once they reach the age of infinite recursion 'why' loops you'll quickly learn that you don't have the time and energy to fend off the firehose of falsehood and will succumb to the bullshit asymmetry principle and realize that the internet can feed your kid crap much faster than you can even reply to if you don't moderate their access.

rchaud 4y ago

Urban legends were spread by word of mouth, like Marilyn Manson removing two ribs so he could self-fellate. We'd hear it from 'that guy' at school, laugh and get on with our day. TikTok is that guy today, and unlike the '90s, he lives in your pocket and can deliver other such interesting tidbits on a variety of topics, 24 hours a day.

A4ET8a8uTh0 4y ago
So urban legends are more accessible now. It only adds more of a responsibility on parents to either spend time with their kids and put TikTok vids in context or just let them be exposed to all the garbage out there. It is not that different from the TV panic. There are differences, but similarities are striking.
- hoseja 4y ago
  Or the difference is as between wild-type Staphylococcus aureus and MRSA.
- rchaud 4y ago
  TV is moderated by the FCC's broadcast standards, delivers the same content to everyone and is finite in quantity. Tiktok is none of those things.
  - A4ET8a8uTh0 4y ago
    This may be where ( and why ) we differ. I do not consider FCC to be, well, useful. It was not useful during Carlin's words you can't say on TV. It is certainly even less useful now. I am confused. Are you arguing for social media government oversight?

walthamstow 4y ago

What if the parent isn't informed enough or, frankly, isn't smart enough to correct their child, add context and teach critical thinking?

A4ET8a8uTh0 4y ago
I honestly have no good answer here. Mind is a terrible thing to waste and I do not want those to fall through the cracks just because parents are idiots. Natural response is to put limits on what parents can do. Here is the problem though. Some people would likely disagree with what I would want to instill in my child. Since that is the case, I accept that parent's freedom will sometimes yield results that are suboptimal ( wasted child's potential ). Beyond that.. what can we do? I would not mind effectively forcing 230 to make all platforms define themselves as publishers or not. Clearly, some sort of re-alignment is needed. Maybe we could force everyone to think twice before posting anything on the net? As you can see, I do not know what the answer is. All I can do is what is best for my family.

ragnese 4y ago

> I understand the concern, but is it that different from early 90s internet spread of drugs made of bananas or even before that urban legends? Well, yes. In the 90s, the speed at which I could acquire stupid ideas from the internet was still VASTLY slower than today. First, I had to actually get home from school and sit in front of a computer because I didn't have an internet-connected device in my pocket at all times. This meant that I couldn't be absorbing nonsense during car rides or dinner time, either. Then, I had to make sure that my family members weren't using the telephone. And while there were lots of questionable forum-style websites, there wasn't like a single-digit number of hubs online where everyone got the same nonsense info at the same time, or where someone who produces said nonsense would know to go to maximize their reach. I would say that information moves much faster today than it has even when Facebook unseated MySpace (which was well after the 90s). > I know that it is easier to ban stuff than teach critical thinking skills, but I genuinely think the latter is preferable long term. Sure, and I didn't suggest otherwise. Education is the most important and resilient way to combat all kinds of terrible ideas. However, the concern I expressed in my comment was specifically about children. Children can't be educated almost by definition- it takes time to become educated and well-versed in basic logic and reasoning. I'm fortunate that my step-son found this information "interesting" enough to share with us so that I had the opportunity to explain to him that the vast majority of content being shared with him is from non-experts or people who are actively trying to manipulate people into agreeing with them on something. Did he take that to heart? Not really; because it happened multiple times and I had roughly the same conversation with him multiple times. He's not there yet in his education. And then there's the other issue of the adults that are consuming and spreading nonsense at record speed. And a lot of that nonsense is currently aiming to turn people AGAINST science and education. "Those damn academics are lying to us!", "Don't trust your kids around teachers- they're 'groomers'!", etc. I don't know what the answer is, but I don't feel good about the future for our kids.

A4ET8a8uTh0 4y ago
<<because I didn't have an internet-connected device in my pocket at all times. The worst part is that I almost completely agree with you, because I am almost certain I will be facing similar hurdles. That said, if the issue is the internet connected device, isn't an instant 'fix' to replace said device with one with no access and then take school to task to enforce similar ban ( the most common objections I heard was:'i need to be able to reach my kid in case of emergency'; dumb phones still exist so that could work? Ehh, I can already tell local PTA will hate me.

pixl97 4y ago

> but is it that different from early 90s The question is, "Is quantity a quality itself?" And while yes, there were plenty of bullshit urban legends and propaganda pieces (generally from ones own government) out there, 'plenty' was still a rather limited number. I'm not sure how old your kid is, but once they reach the age of infinite recursion 'why' loops you'll quickly learn that you don't have the time and energy to fend off the firehose of falsehood and will succumb to the bullshit asymmetry principle and realize that the internet can feed your kid crap much faster than you can even reply to if you don't moderate their access.