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I'm surprised but I can understand why young people want to go manual. Change is also part of growing up and become different from their (our) parents. I alway

I'm surprised but I can understand why young people want to go manual. Change is also part of growing up and become different from their (our) parents. I always owned manual cars but I drove many miles on automatic cars. In my experience manual is safer on hilly terrains when you either have to feel the car or drive really slowly and hope for the best (but a friend with a new automatic car told me this is changing.) Automatic is great inside cities where you always stop and go. It's a tie on the highway because nothing happens and there is no difference driving 50 miles always in manual 5th gear or in automatic 5th gears. For electric, flooring the pedal at the traffic light, no clutch, full torque is great. I won't add a manual transmission to my future EV, if ever.

H1Supreme 4y ago
> It's a tie on the highway because nothing happens and there is no difference driving 50 miles always in manual 5th gear or in automatic 5th gears. Except, most automatics are going up past 5th gear. 7, 8, even 10 speed auto's are pretty common. Those higher "highway" gears make a big difference in terms of engine revs (which equals less noise and better MPG).
- dsfyu404ed 4y ago
  They don't make a "big" difference. If they made a "big" difference you'd have seen them decades ago. We've had the tech for as long as we've had automatic transmissions. More gears is just more stacked planetary gearsets. If you can build a 2spd you can build an N-speed. But just because you can build it doesn't mean you can justify it. It's only within the last decade that the extra complexity and cost have become a) cheaper b) worth it.
  - windowsrookie 4y ago
    What? These 8-10 speed transmissions absolutely make a huge difference. Just one example I'm familiar with is the Dodge charger. The 2014 model had a 5 speed automatic, and the 2015 had an 8 speed. Otherwise they are exactly the same car. The 8 speed transmission resulted in a 3MPG improvement on the highway from 27MPG to 30MPG. That is a huge improvement for only changing literally one component on the car. https://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/Find.do?action=sbs&id=34210&id=35369 https://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/Find.do?action=sbs&id=34210&...
    - dsfyu404ed 4y ago
      >What? Did I stutter? These 8-10 speed transmissions absolutely make a huge difference. Just one example I'm familiar with is the Dodge charger. The 2014 model had a 5 speed automatic, and the 2015 had an 8 speed. Otherwise they are exactly the same car. The 8 speed transmission resulted in a 3MPG improvement on the highway from 27MPG to 30MPG. That is a huge improvement for only changing literally one component on the car. Sure it's "only one component" but you 5/3rd'ed the number of moving parts in it. And "it" is a component that frequently limits the effective useful life of the car. I said that tradeoff didn't make sense until the past decade or so. An example of someone in 2015 choosing to pick up ~10% fuel economy in something that was already pushing high 20s is, to put it undeservingly charitably, not an example to the contrary.
      - windowsrookie 4y ago
        "Sure it's "only one component" but you 5/3rd'ed the number of moving parts in it." The ZF 8 Speed Automatic actually has less moving parts than the ZF 6 speed automatic it replaced.... And the it has proven to be one of the most reliable automatic transmissions produced. The old 4, and 5 speed transmissions are notoriously unreliable. "They don't make a "big" difference. If they made a "big" difference you'd have seen them decades ago. We've had the tech for as long as we've had automatic transmissions. More gears is just more stacked planetary gearsets." I guess I just don't understand your argument. Are you saying these new transmissions don't make a difference because they didn't do it earlier? Even though fuel economy testing proves they clearly do make a difference.... And these new transmissions most certainly are not "just more stacked planetary gearsets". There has been decades of technology and efficiency improvements integrated into these new transmissions. I'm quite certain the transmission control module and shift programming, clutch packs and materials, etc. are different than an old 4 speed transmission.
    - StillBored 4y ago
      A better comparison would be a 5 speed auto vs an 8 speed auto in the same car (not just similar but differing by year, you don't know what else they changed like maybe ECU mapping). The problem is that the ECU itself is going to be much better at optimizing the engine load, rpm and gear than someone driving a manual even with a gear shift hint on something like the EPA tests. And AFAIK the epa highway test is more like a boulevard test than a test of efficiency at a constant say 65 MPH, so gear shifting itself will cause a loss that won't be made up by the slightly higher efficiency of the manual itself since locking torq converters/etc. Thats part of the reason why people have been picking automatics, they started getting better EPA ratings, what 20 years ago when they still had roughly the same number of gears, and not long after started posting better 0-60 numbers as well. Plus, car manufactures frequently do things like change the default tire with a given package (the car you linked as differing gas tanks too). So you get the sporty version and along with the larger engine you get fatter less efficient tires. What I'm trying to say, is that you can't claim the 3MPG diff on that car is entirely just the number of gears by itself.
- StillBored 4y ago
  Uh,???, that is not how it works. The highest gear ration and the lowest gear ratios aren't set by the number of gears.. That is set by an engineer based on expected usage. More gears just allow the car/driver to pick a more efficient gear for a given speed. Ex: https://media.ford.com/content/dam/fordmedia/North%20America/US/product/2021/mustang/2021-Mustang-Tech-Specs.pdf https://media.ford.com/content/dam/fordmedia/North%20America... Note that the top end gearing is pretty similar between the manual and automatics. There is a larger difference in 1st gear, which implies that the automatics might launch a bit faster, although I'm no expert it might just be compensating for the lack of being able to dump the clutch. Also, it is possible to build manuals with more gears, it just isn't usually done for weight and ergonomic issues unless your driving something like an 18 wheeler.
  - H1Supreme 4y ago
    What 5 speed manual transmission can do 2k RPM @ 80mph (like an 8-speed auto)? My old civic would be at like 3500 @ 80. I've observed these with my own eyes. How is that "not how it works"?

H1Supreme 4y ago

> It's a tie on the highway because nothing happens and there is no difference driving 50 miles always in manual 5th gear or in automatic 5th gears. Except, most automatics are going up past 5th gear. 7, 8, even 10 speed auto's are pretty common. Those higher "highway" gears make a big difference in terms of engine revs (which equals less noise and better MPG).

dsfyu404ed 4y ago
They don't make a "big" difference. If they made a "big" difference you'd have seen them decades ago. We've had the tech for as long as we've had automatic transmissions. More gears is just more stacked planetary gearsets. If you can build a 2spd you can build an N-speed. But just because you can build it doesn't mean you can justify it. It's only within the last decade that the extra complexity and cost have become a) cheaper b) worth it.
- windowsrookie 4y ago
  What? These 8-10 speed transmissions absolutely make a huge difference. Just one example I'm familiar with is the Dodge charger. The 2014 model had a 5 speed automatic, and the 2015 had an 8 speed. Otherwise they are exactly the same car. The 8 speed transmission resulted in a 3MPG improvement on the highway from 27MPG to 30MPG. That is a huge improvement for only changing literally one component on the car. https://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/Find.do?action=sbs&id=34210&id=35369 https://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/Find.do?action=sbs&id=34210&...
  - dsfyu404ed 4y ago
    >What? Did I stutter? These 8-10 speed transmissions absolutely make a huge difference. Just one example I'm familiar with is the Dodge charger. The 2014 model had a 5 speed automatic, and the 2015 had an 8 speed. Otherwise they are exactly the same car. The 8 speed transmission resulted in a 3MPG improvement on the highway from 27MPG to 30MPG. That is a huge improvement for only changing literally one component on the car. Sure it's "only one component" but you 5/3rd'ed the number of moving parts in it. And "it" is a component that frequently limits the effective useful life of the car. I said that tradeoff didn't make sense until the past decade or so. An example of someone in 2015 choosing to pick up ~10% fuel economy in something that was already pushing high 20s is, to put it undeservingly charitably, not an example to the contrary.
    - windowsrookie 4y ago
      "Sure it's "only one component" but you 5/3rd'ed the number of moving parts in it." The ZF 8 Speed Automatic actually has less moving parts than the ZF 6 speed automatic it replaced.... And the it has proven to be one of the most reliable automatic transmissions produced. The old 4, and 5 speed transmissions are notoriously unreliable. "They don't make a "big" difference. If they made a "big" difference you'd have seen them decades ago. We've had the tech for as long as we've had automatic transmissions. More gears is just more stacked planetary gearsets." I guess I just don't understand your argument. Are you saying these new transmissions don't make a difference because they didn't do it earlier? Even though fuel economy testing proves they clearly do make a difference.... And these new transmissions most certainly are not "just more stacked planetary gearsets". There has been decades of technology and efficiency improvements integrated into these new transmissions. I'm quite certain the transmission control module and shift programming, clutch packs and materials, etc. are different than an old 4 speed transmission.
  - StillBored 4y ago
    A better comparison would be a 5 speed auto vs an 8 speed auto in the same car (not just similar but differing by year, you don't know what else they changed like maybe ECU mapping). The problem is that the ECU itself is going to be much better at optimizing the engine load, rpm and gear than someone driving a manual even with a gear shift hint on something like the EPA tests. And AFAIK the epa highway test is more like a boulevard test than a test of efficiency at a constant say 65 MPH, so gear shifting itself will cause a loss that won't be made up by the slightly higher efficiency of the manual itself since locking torq converters/etc. Thats part of the reason why people have been picking automatics, they started getting better EPA ratings, what 20 years ago when they still had roughly the same number of gears, and not long after started posting better 0-60 numbers as well. Plus, car manufactures frequently do things like change the default tire with a given package (the car you linked as differing gas tanks too). So you get the sporty version and along with the larger engine you get fatter less efficient tires. What I'm trying to say, is that you can't claim the 3MPG diff on that car is entirely just the number of gears by itself.
StillBored 4y ago
Uh,???, that is not how it works. The highest gear ration and the lowest gear ratios aren't set by the number of gears.. That is set by an engineer based on expected usage. More gears just allow the car/driver to pick a more efficient gear for a given speed. Ex: https://media.ford.com/content/dam/fordmedia/North%20America/US/product/2021/mustang/2021-Mustang-Tech-Specs.pdf https://media.ford.com/content/dam/fordmedia/North%20America... Note that the top end gearing is pretty similar between the manual and automatics. There is a larger difference in 1st gear, which implies that the automatics might launch a bit faster, although I'm no expert it might just be compensating for the lack of being able to dump the clutch. Also, it is possible to build manuals with more gears, it just isn't usually done for weight and ergonomic issues unless your driving something like an 18 wheeler.
- H1Supreme 4y ago
  What 5 speed manual transmission can do 2k RPM @ 80mph (like an 8-speed auto)? My old civic would be at like 3500 @ 80. I've observed these with my own eyes. How is that "not how it works"?