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I maintain Rust has a very hostile community most of the time. It seems to me that they hide behind progressive social stances and say "see we're nice guys!" wh

I maintain Rust has a very hostile community most of the time. It seems to me that they hide behind progressive social stances and say "see we're nice guys!" when they're just as rude and indignant than any other group. I think it goes hand-in-hand with the intellectual-superiority-claims that other code is unsafe, but our code is safe because we're Rust-people. It is a real shame, because the language itself is pretty cool.

psychphysic 4y ago
I absolutely agree. Issues at Rust got to the point that about a year ago the moderation committee resigned. [0] Anecdotes suggest was over quite serious irreconcilable issues[2] The rumour mill went wild and I've no idea if we ever got clarity. It's a rabbithole with spiralling conspiracy theories. A core member seemed to delete their Twitter too. [1] Very concerningly the original resignation letter said to be sceptical (I think that's the word used) of core team response. This I think was recanted. I'm not sure what the circumstances of the recantation was but it's a very serious thing to say of course. Is it possible it was based on legal advice? In my opinion there's no smoke without fire and there is far too much controversy in and around the Rust community to call it bad luck. Something is rotten there but I guess I have no interest in finding out why. Only that I stopped going to Rust meetups at Mozilla due to the hostile atmosphere to any detractors. [0] https://www.theregister.com/2021/11/23/rust_moderation_team_quits/ https://www.theregister.com/2021/11/23/rust_moderation_team_... [1] https://www.reddit.com/r/rust/comments/qzme1z/moderation_team_resignation/ https://www.reddit.com/r/rust/comments/qzme1z/moderation_tea... [2] https://www.reddit.com/r/rust/comments/rclslb/the_core_team_is_toxic/ https://www.reddit.com/r/rust/comments/rclslb/the_core_team_...
WesolyKubeczek 4y ago
I don't think that the person in question has changed at his core since. This in the vast majority of cases, doesn't happen. In most cases, the troll/bully/predator only learns to hide their nature better. Posting apologies after having been called out on bullying behavior can be construed either as a genuine apology, or an attempt to hide one's own true nature. It might be the latter with the person believing in the former, too. This is why I take all that being paragons of empathy (or whatever it is they mean by this word), inclusivity, etc with a grain of salt the size of a small boulder. Why I think I shouldn't be too generous towards the person and the community he's been representing: they haven't let go of pile-ons and bashing, they just now are directing it at a different target. It seems socially acceptable to bash anything written in C and therefore "unsafe", without taking into account how nuanced this whole thing is. It's "impersonal" (hint: it's not), so it must be okay, right? Right?
- dontbeaklabnik 4y ago

psychphysic 4y ago

I absolutely agree. Issues at Rust got to the point that about a year ago the moderation committee resigned. [0] Anecdotes suggest was over quite serious irreconcilable issues[2] The rumour mill went wild and I've no idea if we ever got clarity. It's a rabbithole with spiralling conspiracy theories. A core member seemed to delete their Twitter too. [1] Very concerningly the original resignation letter said to be sceptical (I think that's the word used) of core team response. This I think was recanted. I'm not sure what the circumstances of the recantation was but it's a very serious thing to say of course. Is it possible it was based on legal advice? In my opinion there's no smoke without fire and there is far too much controversy in and around the Rust community to call it bad luck. Something is rotten there but I guess I have no interest in finding out why. Only that I stopped going to Rust meetups at Mozilla due to the hostile atmosphere to any detractors. [0] https://www.theregister.com/2021/11/23/rust_moderation_team_quits/ https://www.theregister.com/2021/11/23/rust_moderation_team_... [1] https://www.reddit.com/r/rust/comments/qzme1z/moderation_team_resignation/ https://www.reddit.com/r/rust/comments/qzme1z/moderation_tea... [2] https://www.reddit.com/r/rust/comments/rclslb/the_core_team_is_toxic/ https://www.reddit.com/r/rust/comments/rclslb/the_core_team_...

WesolyKubeczek 4y ago

I don't think that the person in question has changed at his core since. This in the vast majority of cases, doesn't happen. In most cases, the troll/bully/predator only learns to hide their nature better. Posting apologies after having been called out on bullying behavior can be construed either as a genuine apology, or an attempt to hide one's own true nature. It might be the latter with the person believing in the former, too. This is why I take all that being paragons of empathy (or whatever it is they mean by this word), inclusivity, etc with a grain of salt the size of a small boulder. Why I think I shouldn't be too generous towards the person and the community he's been representing: they haven't let go of pile-ons and bashing, they just now are directing it at a different target. It seems socially acceptable to bash anything written in C and therefore "unsafe", without taking into account how nuanced this whole thing is. It's "impersonal" (hint: it's not), so it must be okay, right? Right?

dontbeaklabnik 4y ago