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I'm sorry for reinforcing my bias publicly, unfortunately to late to edit. Thank you.

by fock 4y ago

ThunderSizzle 4y ago
You don't need to apologize, as you did nothing wrong. Your usage was completely acceptable based on the context provided and knoeledge you had. It would be incorrect now since you know she is a she. Defaulting to he isn't bias, it's language feature of English since people didn't like using "it" to describe people, so "he" is a default singular pronoun.
- xenocratus 4y ago
  > it's language feature of English since people didn't like using "it" to describe people, so "he" is a default singular pronoun. .... Did "they" get removed from the dictionary or something?
  - cpach 4y ago
    Nope.
  - gwd 4y ago
    > .... Did "they" get removed from the dictionary or something? When I was growing up, it was explicitly taught in school as being incorrect grammar to use "they" for an ungendered third-person singular pronoun. At some point I decided that was a stupid policy for lots of reasons, and explicitly decided to go ahead and use it anyway. But it still feels weird.
    - xenocratus 4y ago
      Cambridge Dictionary [1] says the following about "they": "used to refer to a person whose gender is not known or does not need to be mentioned" To me that pretty much sums it up. [1] https://dictionary.cambridge.org/dictionary/english/they https://dictionary.cambridge.org/dictionary/english/they
      - gwd 4y ago
        Remember that the Cambridge and Oxford dictionaries are trying to be descriptive: that is, they're trying to see how people are actually using words. People actually use "they" as described there, and have been doing it for hundreds of years [1], and so it's in the Cambridge Dictionary. What is taught in schools is prescriptive: They're trying to teach people "proper English" (sometimes called "prestige dialects"). So they tell you not to use "ain't", not to use double negatives ("I didn't do nothin'!"), not to say "literally" when you're speaking figuratively ("My head literally exploded!")... and not to use the singular "they" ("Can the owner of the blue car turn their lights off"). I retain the first three of those rules, in spite of the fact that I'm pretty sure the Cambridge Dictionary has entries for "ain't" and "figuratively" that violate them; but I have deliberately chosen to reject the last one. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Singular_they https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Singular_they
        boredhedgehog 4y ago
        > have been doing it for hundreds of years Dubious. The cited historical examples all refer to mass nouns or nouns with an implied plural. Usage with a concrete, singular person doesn't seem to be older than a few decades.
        gwd 4y ago
        We're not talking about a case where there's a concrete singular person; we're talking about using it to describe a "person whose gender is not known". If you don't know the author's gender, using "they" has hundreds of years of precedent.
        boredhedgehog 4y ago
        > We're not talking about a case where there's a concrete singular person; we're talking about using it to describe a "person whose gender is not known". But that's the same thing. The crucial point being, we know it's one person. > If you don't know the author's gender, using "they" has hundreds of years of precedent. Citation please? The older the better. But mind, one addressee only.
- cxr 4y ago
  > Defaulting to he isn't bias, it's language feature of English since people didn't like using "it" to describe people, so "he" is a default singular pronoun. This is not really true—certainly not anymore, at least—and from my vantage point has not ever been true at any point in my lifetime. Some style guides did continue to prescribe "he" in this way up until recently (maybe some still do), but that has never matched the way that any human that I've interacted with actually spoke. And I really do mean any—even the most crotchety/unenlightened/uneducated ones. If you had used "he" this way (outside of formal contexts, where it may have still been prescribed), then people would have looked at you like you're a fuckin' weirdo. Because it would have been weird. Because nobody said "he" unless they were talking about a specific (albeit possibly hypothetical/imaginary) person with the attributes that actually call for the use of "he", rather than "they/them".
stavros 4y ago
Not so much about bias, but it made your comment very confusing, as I kept trying to figure out whom you were referring to. The blog's name being "Heather's Paragraphs" kind of gives it away :P

I'm sorry for reinforcing my bias publicly, unfortunately to late to edit. Thank you.

by fock 4y ago

I'm sorry for reinforcing my bias publicly, unfortunately to late to edit. Thank you.

You don't need to apologize, as you did nothing wrong. Your usage was completely acceptable based on the context provided and knoeledge you had. It would be incorrect now since you know she is a she. Defaulting to he isn't bias, it's language feature of English since people didn't like using "it" to describe people, so "he" is a default singular pronoun.

xenocratus 4y ago
> it's language feature of English since people didn't like using "it" to describe people, so "he" is a default singular pronoun. .... Did "they" get removed from the dictionary or something?
- cpach 4y ago
  Nope.
- gwd 4y ago
  > .... Did "they" get removed from the dictionary or something? When I was growing up, it was explicitly taught in school as being incorrect grammar to use "they" for an ungendered third-person singular pronoun. At some point I decided that was a stupid policy for lots of reasons, and explicitly decided to go ahead and use it anyway. But it still feels weird.
  - xenocratus 4y ago
    Cambridge Dictionary [1] says the following about "they": "used to refer to a person whose gender is not known or does not need to be mentioned" To me that pretty much sums it up. [1] https://dictionary.cambridge.org/dictionary/english/they https://dictionary.cambridge.org/dictionary/english/they
    - gwd 4y ago
      Remember that the Cambridge and Oxford dictionaries are trying to be descriptive: that is, they're trying to see how people are actually using words. People actually use "they" as described there, and have been doing it for hundreds of years [1], and so it's in the Cambridge Dictionary. What is taught in schools is prescriptive: They're trying to teach people "proper English" (sometimes called "prestige dialects"). So they tell you not to use "ain't", not to use double negatives ("I didn't do nothin'!"), not to say "literally" when you're speaking figuratively ("My head literally exploded!")... and not to use the singular "they" ("Can the owner of the blue car turn their lights off"). I retain the first three of those rules, in spite of the fact that I'm pretty sure the Cambridge Dictionary has entries for "ain't" and "figuratively" that violate them; but I have deliberately chosen to reject the last one. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Singular_they https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Singular_they
      - boredhedgehog 4y ago
        > have been doing it for hundreds of years Dubious. The cited historical examples all refer to mass nouns or nouns with an implied plural. Usage with a concrete, singular person doesn't seem to be older than a few decades.
        gwd 4y ago
        We're not talking about a case where there's a concrete singular person; we're talking about using it to describe a "person whose gender is not known". If you don't know the author's gender, using "they" has hundreds of years of precedent.
        boredhedgehog 4y ago
        > We're not talking about a case where there's a concrete singular person; we're talking about using it to describe a "person whose gender is not known". But that's the same thing. The crucial point being, we know it's one person. > If you don't know the author's gender, using "they" has hundreds of years of precedent. Citation please? The older the better. But mind, one addressee only.
cxr 4y ago
> Defaulting to he isn't bias, it's language feature of English since people didn't like using "it" to describe people, so "he" is a default singular pronoun. This is not really true—certainly not anymore, at least—and from my vantage point has not ever been true at any point in my lifetime. Some style guides did continue to prescribe "he" in this way up until recently (maybe some still do), but that has never matched the way that any human that I've interacted with actually spoke. And I really do mean any—even the most crotchety/unenlightened/uneducated ones. If you had used "he" this way (outside of formal contexts, where it may have still been prescribed), then people would have looked at you like you're a fuckin' weirdo. Because it would have been weird. Because nobody said "he" unless they were talking about a specific (albeit possibly hypothetical/imaginary) person with the attributes that actually call for the use of "he", rather than "they/them".

stavros 4y ago

Not so much about bias, but it made your comment very confusing, as I kept trying to figure out whom you were referring to. The blog's name being "Heather's Paragraphs" kind of gives it away :P