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Do you not realize how fucked up & demented you sound in saying this…? Education is the only path to a better world. The vast majority of the populace cannot a

by s5300 4y ago

Do you not realize how fucked up & demented you sound in saying this…? Education is the only path to a better world. The vast majority of the populace cannot afford private schooling. & to them - you say - fuck them. Makes me feel as if nepotism might be a fetish of yours.

wizzwizz4 4y ago
Education is incredibly important… but I'm not confident US schools actually provide it. It's better than nothing, sure, but if you can do better than schools, why send your child to one? https://mysite.science.uottawa.ca/mnewman/LockhartsLament.pdf https://mysite.science.uottawa.ca/mnewman/LockhartsLament.pd... So long as you make sure they have friends and peers – which is, admittedly, really hard outside the school system – what's the advantage of school?
- s5300 4y ago
  I went to a public school in one of the 10 poorest counties in the US. I lived well below the poverty line with food insecurity. Socially it was somewhat hellish & there were definitely more than enough teachers that gave zero fucks about anything, but also teachers who cared more than you could ever imagine. I came out of it with full ride scholarships for mechanical engineering, to a University ranked something within the top 20 of whatever with regards to their engineering programs in general, & of their various fields, their MechE & ElecE were regarded as the best (within the engineering college, realized my poor wording could be interpreted in another way). I also received - actually, was harassed with - endless offers from military recruiters to go down a navy nuke/Air Force officer path, w/a $30k-$40k enlistment bonus, just for being in the top percentile of the ASVAB test - offered by my public school, that I reluctantly took. Public schools, administration wise, are in general part of the problem. But cunts of parents raising shitty little cockgargling douchecunts of kids that inhabit the public schools are the larger problem. I don’t know the best solution to the problem, but burning down public schools even more is definitely not it. I think giving a baseline pay of $70k/yr, a $20k or so one time “bonus”, as well as a “if you hate being a teacher, here’s $15k-$30k severance to quit, but you can never be in any position dealing with public education systems again” to every teacher may be a decent start. Sorry for the poor articulation & vocabulary in this comment, quite tired after a long day & in a good amount of physical pain.
  - lithos 4y ago
    I was a nuke for the 'normal minimum' 6 years. It's a depressing place, as normal person will typically get out as soon as possible since they survived that trial by fire there are tons of 'shoe in' jobs around that pay more. This of course means the people left behind to become leaders are afraid of civilian life or trapped there for other reasons (military medical benefits for a family member being a prime example). Also a social situation where nukes hate other nukes (while serving), and the social obnoxiousness of nukes causing nonnukes to hate them as well. Ultimately that leads to a situation where nuke commands will have the lowest morale out of all branches. Though there was an exception for a while where drone pilot commands had lower morale.
    - s5300 4y ago
      Out of curiosity, what makes the nukes hate each other while serving? Something along the lines of having to hold each other accountable for every tiny little tedious thing on endlessly long checklists or something? The funny thing for me was that, though it wasn’t obvious just by looking at me & at the time nobody would’ve known unless I’d told them, I medically couldn’t have done anything military because of some internal physical medical conditions & being on some arguably heavy medication to deal with associated nerve pain. Or at least I presumed that would’ve disqualified me, & things only gradually got worse. There was one other path the Navy dude mentioned they were pretty desperately in need of intelligent people for, willing to put up with the slog that it entailed & had the same enlistment bonus. Can’t remember what. Had a friend end up in communications on a sub though… definitely said it sucked the life out of him & gtfo as soon as he could.
  - wizzwizz4 4y ago
    No, absolutely, burning down public schools is not the answer. Public schools are, in theory, one of the best things in the world, and I (with parents who couldn't have done a better job, since my nearest library was the school's library) benefited a lot. But I hated lots of the school experience, and it would have been strictly better for me if I had not been forced through those parts. I mean things like: • being forced to execute algorithms on paper for literally hundreds of hours when I understood them better than the textbook author… or worse, being forced to execute algorithms on paper when I didn't understand them, rather than having time to play around enough to understand them. (Mathematics) • having linguistic prescriptivists telling me my writing was incorrect, even though I was only doing things that were done in the set texts. My writing was bad, sure, but my grammar was good; I've only been called out on an actual grammatical mistake once since the age of 10, and it's not like anyone told me why it was wrong.¹ (English) • being forced to do sports I had no interest in, and that involved being grabbed and pushed around, rather than being allowed to just play. (Physical Education) • having to memorise insignificant, isolated minutiae (like the dates of events that, actually, could've happened a week either side and it have made no difference), and being punished if I wrote something incorrect by mistake. (History) • having to memorise and recite actually incorrect stuff, and being punished if I wrote something correct by mistake. (Computer Science) • being told to memorise and recite blatantly incorrect stuff ("Liberal Christians believe that everyone goes to heaven after they die; and also that heaven is just a metaphor for a state of mind and there isn't actually an afterlife.") in a strictly-structured format, despite it actually being fine to write correct stuff in free verse in the exam. Heck, I bet even iambic pentameter or double dactyl would've been allowed. (Religion) • having to memorise a specific set of details about specific case studies, or be punished with the inability to demonstrate entire classes of understanding about the subject. (Geography) • having my work constantly judged and marked based on whether the teacher thought they could do better (and then having that mark written on the work), basically killing my passion stone cold dead. (Art) (I also disliked Music, but I don't think there was anything wrong with it. I just wasn't very good. I guess I enjoyed it enough to not be chafed too much by being forced to do it.) And I'm not even from the US. Everything I've heard about the US public school system says that it's even worse. > But cunts of parents raising shitty little cockgargling douchecunts of kids that inhabit the public schools are the larger problem. Schools have to do double-duty as daycare and places of learning, and they don't do a brilliant job of either. Perhaps only admitting children who want to learn might help? But then, that would force kids who would benefit from being there to not attend, allows bullies to make "bully the target out of school" a success criterion… > Sorry for the poor articulation & vocabulary in this comment, My English teacher would've marked you down for it ("ElectE isn't a real word", "Don't use &"², "dashes are lazy punctuation"), but I can't see a single actual problem with it. Two potential comma splices where I'd've used a semicolon, but that's pretty minor. --- ¹: It was an issue with tense in reported speech; if the narration is past-tense and the speech is future-tense, you use the conditional tense. I managed to figure it out, about five years later, while reading a fanfic – yes, from the internet! ²: Even though it was considered a letter of the alphabet back in the 11th century, way before the I/J and U/V distinction was made. (The very name "ampersand" comes from "W, X, Y, Z, and per se 'and'"…) It's not a text-speak abbreviation thankyouverymuch, and even if it were, that wouldn't stop it being a legitimate part of the language.
- gcapu 4y ago
  It is easier to appreciate public school when you grow up poor and your family is a disaster. That’s all I had, and it was my way out of poverty.
davemp 4y ago
I mean most people don’t realize that as a country we spend $14.5k per student (top 5 globally). With average class sizes at ~20 students, we spend ~$290k per class per year. The average teacher’s salary is $55k that leaving ~$235k. Avg office leases are $35/sqft per year and classrooms are ~1k sqft so that’s only $35k. Making the core cost of teacher + classroom $90k/yr So somehow we’re burning $200k per class per year on administration, transportation, facility management, curriculums, and extracurriculars. I can see not wanting to expand the current wasteful system.
- mh- 4y ago
  I thought your numbers sounded high, but they're actually too low in CA: > The total overall funding (federal, state, and local) for all K–12 education programs is $124.3 billion, with per-pupil spending of $21,596 in 2021–22. For 2020–21, per-pupil funding increased from $16,881 in the 2020–21 Budget Act to $23,089 in the 2021–22 Budget Act. https://www.cde.ca.gov/fg/fr/eb/yr21ltr0811.asp https://www.cde.ca.gov/fg/fr/eb/yr21ltr0811.asp
- anotherman554 4y ago
  The person upthread said they "vote against schools" I assume the intent it to have the children raise themselves on the street while their parents work in sweat shops like a Dickensian novel. A teacher's salary might be 55k but you have not accounted for pension, FICA and health care. A more interesting question is what should it cost to run an education system? A quick search indicates the U.S. "spends about 4.96% of its GDP on education, compared to the 5.59% average of other developed nations" So maybe things just cost more in the U.S.
  - VancouverMan 4y ago
    > what should it cost to run an education system? That can only be properly determined with a free market, where the supply-side and demand-side participants voluntarily come to an agreement about what services will be offered, and what will be paid in exchange for those services. What we'd find is that there isn't one specific amount. It would vary significantly, depending on the unique situations of the various participants.

by s5300 4y ago

wizzwizz4 4y ago

Education is incredibly important… but I'm not confident US schools actually provide it. It's better than nothing, sure, but if you can do better than schools, why send your child to one? https://mysite.science.uottawa.ca/mnewman/LockhartsLament.pdf https://mysite.science.uottawa.ca/mnewman/LockhartsLament.pd... So long as you make sure they have friends and peers – which is, admittedly, really hard outside the school system – what's the advantage of school?

s5300 4y ago
I went to a public school in one of the 10 poorest counties in the US. I lived well below the poverty line with food insecurity. Socially it was somewhat hellish & there were definitely more than enough teachers that gave zero fucks about anything, but also teachers who cared more than you could ever imagine. I came out of it with full ride scholarships for mechanical engineering, to a University ranked something within the top 20 of whatever with regards to their engineering programs in general, & of their various fields, their MechE & ElecE were regarded as the best (within the engineering college, realized my poor wording could be interpreted in another way). I also received - actually, was harassed with - endless offers from military recruiters to go down a navy nuke/Air Force officer path, w/a $30k-$40k enlistment bonus, just for being in the top percentile of the ASVAB test - offered by my public school, that I reluctantly took. Public schools, administration wise, are in general part of the problem. But cunts of parents raising shitty little cockgargling douchecunts of kids that inhabit the public schools are the larger problem. I don’t know the best solution to the problem, but burning down public schools even more is definitely not it. I think giving a baseline pay of $70k/yr, a $20k or so one time “bonus”, as well as a “if you hate being a teacher, here’s $15k-$30k severance to quit, but you can never be in any position dealing with public education systems again” to every teacher may be a decent start. Sorry for the poor articulation & vocabulary in this comment, quite tired after a long day & in a good amount of physical pain.
- lithos 4y ago
  I was a nuke for the 'normal minimum' 6 years. It's a depressing place, as normal person will typically get out as soon as possible since they survived that trial by fire there are tons of 'shoe in' jobs around that pay more. This of course means the people left behind to become leaders are afraid of civilian life or trapped there for other reasons (military medical benefits for a family member being a prime example). Also a social situation where nukes hate other nukes (while serving), and the social obnoxiousness of nukes causing nonnukes to hate them as well. Ultimately that leads to a situation where nuke commands will have the lowest morale out of all branches. Though there was an exception for a while where drone pilot commands had lower morale.
  - s5300 4y ago
    Out of curiosity, what makes the nukes hate each other while serving? Something along the lines of having to hold each other accountable for every tiny little tedious thing on endlessly long checklists or something? The funny thing for me was that, though it wasn’t obvious just by looking at me & at the time nobody would’ve known unless I’d told them, I medically couldn’t have done anything military because of some internal physical medical conditions & being on some arguably heavy medication to deal with associated nerve pain. Or at least I presumed that would’ve disqualified me, & things only gradually got worse. There was one other path the Navy dude mentioned they were pretty desperately in need of intelligent people for, willing to put up with the slog that it entailed & had the same enlistment bonus. Can’t remember what. Had a friend end up in communications on a sub though… definitely said it sucked the life out of him & gtfo as soon as he could.
- wizzwizz4 4y ago
  No, absolutely, burning down public schools is not the answer. Public schools are, in theory, one of the best things in the world, and I (with parents who couldn't have done a better job, since my nearest library was the school's library) benefited a lot. But I hated lots of the school experience, and it would have been strictly better for me if I had not been forced through those parts. I mean things like: • being forced to execute algorithms on paper for literally hundreds of hours when I understood them better than the textbook author… or worse, being forced to execute algorithms on paper when I didn't understand them, rather than having time to play around enough to understand them. (Mathematics) • having linguistic prescriptivists telling me my writing was incorrect, even though I was only doing things that were done in the set texts. My writing was bad, sure, but my grammar was good; I've only been called out on an actual grammatical mistake once since the age of 10, and it's not like anyone told me why it was wrong.¹ (English) • being forced to do sports I had no interest in, and that involved being grabbed and pushed around, rather than being allowed to just play. (Physical Education) • having to memorise insignificant, isolated minutiae (like the dates of events that, actually, could've happened a week either side and it have made no difference), and being punished if I wrote something incorrect by mistake. (History) • having to memorise and recite actually incorrect stuff, and being punished if I wrote something correct by mistake. (Computer Science) • being told to memorise and recite blatantly incorrect stuff ("Liberal Christians believe that everyone goes to heaven after they die; and also that heaven is just a metaphor for a state of mind and there isn't actually an afterlife.") in a strictly-structured format, despite it actually being fine to write correct stuff in free verse in the exam. Heck, I bet even iambic pentameter or double dactyl would've been allowed. (Religion) • having to memorise a specific set of details about specific case studies, or be punished with the inability to demonstrate entire classes of understanding about the subject. (Geography) • having my work constantly judged and marked based on whether the teacher thought they could do better (and then having that mark written on the work), basically killing my passion stone cold dead. (Art) (I also disliked Music, but I don't think there was anything wrong with it. I just wasn't very good. I guess I enjoyed it enough to not be chafed too much by being forced to do it.) And I'm not even from the US. Everything I've heard about the US public school system says that it's even worse. > But cunts of parents raising shitty little cockgargling douchecunts of kids that inhabit the public schools are the larger problem. Schools have to do double-duty as daycare and places of learning, and they don't do a brilliant job of either. Perhaps only admitting children who want to learn might help? But then, that would force kids who would benefit from being there to not attend, allows bullies to make "bully the target out of school" a success criterion… > Sorry for the poor articulation & vocabulary in this comment, My English teacher would've marked you down for it ("ElectE isn't a real word", "Don't use &"², "dashes are lazy punctuation"), but I can't see a single actual problem with it. Two potential comma splices where I'd've used a semicolon, but that's pretty minor. --- ¹: It was an issue with tense in reported speech; if the narration is past-tense and the speech is future-tense, you use the conditional tense. I managed to figure it out, about five years later, while reading a fanfic – yes, from the internet! ²: Even though it was considered a letter of the alphabet back in the 11th century, way before the I/J and U/V distinction was made. (The very name "ampersand" comes from "W, X, Y, Z, and per se 'and'"…) It's not a text-speak abbreviation thankyouverymuch, and even if it were, that wouldn't stop it being a legitimate part of the language.
gcapu 4y ago
It is easier to appreciate public school when you grow up poor and your family is a disaster. That’s all I had, and it was my way out of poverty.

davemp 4y ago

I mean most people don’t realize that as a country we spend $14.5k per student (top 5 globally). With average class sizes at ~20 students, we spend ~$290k per class per year. The average teacher’s salary is $55k that leaving ~$235k. Avg office leases are $35/sqft per year and classrooms are ~1k sqft so that’s only $35k. Making the core cost of teacher + classroom $90k/yr So somehow we’re burning $200k per class per year on administration, transportation, facility management, curriculums, and extracurriculars. I can see not wanting to expand the current wasteful system.

mh- 4y ago
I thought your numbers sounded high, but they're actually too low in CA: > The total overall funding (federal, state, and local) for all K–12 education programs is $124.3 billion, with per-pupil spending of $21,596 in 2021–22. For 2020–21, per-pupil funding increased from $16,881 in the 2020–21 Budget Act to $23,089 in the 2021–22 Budget Act. https://www.cde.ca.gov/fg/fr/eb/yr21ltr0811.asp https://www.cde.ca.gov/fg/fr/eb/yr21ltr0811.asp
anotherman554 4y ago
The person upthread said they "vote against schools" I assume the intent it to have the children raise themselves on the street while their parents work in sweat shops like a Dickensian novel. A teacher's salary might be 55k but you have not accounted for pension, FICA and health care. A more interesting question is what should it cost to run an education system? A quick search indicates the U.S. "spends about 4.96% of its GDP on education, compared to the 5.59% average of other developed nations" So maybe things just cost more in the U.S.
- VancouverMan 4y ago
  > what should it cost to run an education system? That can only be properly determined with a free market, where the supply-side and demand-side participants voluntarily come to an agreement about what services will be offered, and what will be paid in exchange for those services. What we'd find is that there isn't one specific amount. It would vary significantly, depending on the unique situations of the various participants.