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I suspect you might be grossly extrapolating from your own social circles. I think it’s a really safe assumption that most people don’t really care what others

by dagmx 4y ago

I suspect you might be grossly extrapolating from your own social circles. I think it’s a really safe assumption that most people don’t really care what others have, or really care that much about a device vs it doing what they need. I don’t think that’s a US vs Europe thing. I see people in tech circles in America make the same judgements, but don’t realize that it’s irrelevant

thomasahle 4y ago
> I don’t think that’s a US vs Europe thing I had never encountered the "blue vs green" bubble problem until moving to the US. It's partly because the US has a higher rate of iPhones (through subsidized phone plans) and partly because the US hung onto SMS much longer than other countries.
- dagmx 4y ago
  Sure, I won’t deny that there’s a blue/green bubble issue in the same way that people have issues with any friction point. This is the same as if one set of friends are on WhatsApp and another set are on telegram etc… and having to deal with either switching between apps or dealing with reduced capabilities. However the initial person I was replying to was talking about judgements regarding the device itself and as a whole, not just messaging friction
  - riatin 4y ago
    To add my own lived experience, the whole blue / green text thing is absolutely a cultural label throughout continental Europe. As a 20-something who has recently lived in France + Denmark, you do seem like a bit of a pariah without an iPhone
    - lodovic 4y ago
      Really? In my experience, the main audience for iPhones, consists of three groups: high earners, fans and children. The first group buys for status, the second group buys for convenience, and the third group because the repairs are cheaper and easier (fewer models). Most people I know despise the Apple model of always trying to squeeze some more money out of you.
      - scarface74 4y ago
        Have you ever thought that it might be more of a function of people you know and your own outlook than objective reality? Does 33% of the population of the EU and 50% of the population of the US really fit in your tiny bubbles. You realize Android phones are running an operating systems whose entire purpose of being is to collect your data and continuously make money off of you?
        lodovic 4y ago
        Not sure I understand what you are trying to say. Yes, no and yes, but that doesn't change anything.
        scarface74 4y ago
        Except that maybe your bubble is not aligned to objective reality?
        sph 4y ago
        Yours is?
        scarface74 4y ago
        Well let’s go back to your statements > The first group buys for status, With 50% of the population in the US having iPhones and 33% in the EU, where is the “status from having one”? Besides, in the US, the difference between buying an iPhone on a 24 month interest free payment plan and an Android phone on the same payment plan is minimum. Even at minimum wage that’s less than 5 hours of work. But with todays worker shortage, even fast food workers are making $15/hour. This gets back to how is it a symbol of “status” when you have the same phone as a teenager flipping burgers? > the second group buys for convenience, You mean people buy stuff that makes their life more convenient? Isn’t this like saying “water is wet”? > and the third group because the repairs are cheaper and easier (fewer models) Repairs are easier because Apple has retail stores all over the country and actually have good customer service.
    - sph 4y ago
      As a 30-something European it never happened to me, not even once. Maybe we should not assume it's always a country thing. It's peer pressure behaviour, and your immediate group of peers might or might not care.
      - Guillaume86 4y ago
        Same thing for me, first time I heard about it was on HN IIRC.
  - thomasahle 4y ago
    > This is the same as if one set of friends are on WhatsApp and another set are on telegram etc… and having to deal with either switching between apps or dealing with reduced capabilities. It's not really the same, since if a group is using WhatsApp and you want to join, but don't have WhatsApp, you can simply install it. The same with all other messaging platforms. With iMessage you can join over text/MMS, but it will make the experience so much worse for everyone that most people (from my experience) will simply not allow you to join. There's a reason this is a major cause of dread for socially vulnerable teenagers https://www.wsj.com/articles/why-apples-imessage-is-winning-teens-dread-the-green-text-bubble-11641618009 https://www.wsj.com/articles/why-apples-imessage-is-winning-... but it's not that different for adults.
  - deleted 4y ago
    [deleted]
adlpz 4y ago
I am extrapolating from my own experience. I believe you are right in the sense that most people don't really care, not in the EU and neither in the US. However I have seen first hand the Android prejudice, to call it something, in the US. And I've never seen it in the EU, where I've spent the majority of my time lately. And, conversely, I've seen plenty of prejudice against iOS in a many varied (but not all, of course) social contexts across the EU. But yes, definitely, it's anecdotal evidence based on my own experience.
- blowski 4y ago
  I’m in the UK, and I can’t say your description rings true to me at all. There are some fans who passionately defend their tribe while attacking the other, but most people couldn’t care less either way. I believe it’s similar in the US.
  - teetertater 4y ago
    Parent said EU, not UK ;) Jokes aside I've found the UK to be closer aligned with the US socially on many things vs rest of Europe
  - rickdeckard 4y ago
    Worth to note that just like US, Canada and Australia, the market share of iPhone in UK is above 50%, whereas Europe average is <40% pushing Apple to #2 or lower. The Smartphone Premium Tier device-segment (>600 USD w/o subsidy) makes up ~50% of all sales in UK, which firmly positions Apple far FAR in the lead in this segment, just like in US, UK, AU,... This is also not evenly distributed geographically (cities have a much higher sales of iPhones than rural areas). --> There are barely any "tribes" left in the higher income-brackets of UK. A person who can afford an iPhone likely owns an iPhone, so non-iPhone users are either "quirky exotics" (i.e. using a foldable device) or very likely in a lower income bracket. The lower income bracket is where the fringe of Apple/Android is, and that's where the argument of "iPhone means I'm successful" / "Android means I'm smarter" is really happening (~400USD w/o subsidy). So if you're in one of the above english-speaking countries and you don't notice this argument, you're likely in a higher income bracket and likely live in a city.
lrvick 4y ago
Some of us are polite enough to only silently judge Apple users IRL.

by dagmx 4y ago

thomasahle 4y ago

> I don’t think that’s a US vs Europe thing I had never encountered the "blue vs green" bubble problem until moving to the US. It's partly because the US has a higher rate of iPhones (through subsidized phone plans) and partly because the US hung onto SMS much longer than other countries.

dagmx 4y ago
Sure, I won’t deny that there’s a blue/green bubble issue in the same way that people have issues with any friction point. This is the same as if one set of friends are on WhatsApp and another set are on telegram etc… and having to deal with either switching between apps or dealing with reduced capabilities. However the initial person I was replying to was talking about judgements regarding the device itself and as a whole, not just messaging friction
- riatin 4y ago
  To add my own lived experience, the whole blue / green text thing is absolutely a cultural label throughout continental Europe. As a 20-something who has recently lived in France + Denmark, you do seem like a bit of a pariah without an iPhone
  - lodovic 4y ago
    Really? In my experience, the main audience for iPhones, consists of three groups: high earners, fans and children. The first group buys for status, the second group buys for convenience, and the third group because the repairs are cheaper and easier (fewer models). Most people I know despise the Apple model of always trying to squeeze some more money out of you.
    - scarface74 4y ago
      Have you ever thought that it might be more of a function of people you know and your own outlook than objective reality? Does 33% of the population of the EU and 50% of the population of the US really fit in your tiny bubbles. You realize Android phones are running an operating systems whose entire purpose of being is to collect your data and continuously make money off of you?
      - lodovic 4y ago
        Not sure I understand what you are trying to say. Yes, no and yes, but that doesn't change anything.
        scarface74 4y ago
        Except that maybe your bubble is not aligned to objective reality?
        sph 4y ago
        Yours is?
        scarface74 4y ago
        Well let’s go back to your statements > The first group buys for status, With 50% of the population in the US having iPhones and 33% in the EU, where is the “status from having one”? Besides, in the US, the difference between buying an iPhone on a 24 month interest free payment plan and an Android phone on the same payment plan is minimum. Even at minimum wage that’s less than 5 hours of work. But with todays worker shortage, even fast food workers are making $15/hour. This gets back to how is it a symbol of “status” when you have the same phone as a teenager flipping burgers? > the second group buys for convenience, You mean people buy stuff that makes their life more convenient? Isn’t this like saying “water is wet”? > and the third group because the repairs are cheaper and easier (fewer models) Repairs are easier because Apple has retail stores all over the country and actually have good customer service.
  - sph 4y ago
    As a 30-something European it never happened to me, not even once. Maybe we should not assume it's always a country thing. It's peer pressure behaviour, and your immediate group of peers might or might not care.
    - Guillaume86 4y ago
      Same thing for me, first time I heard about it was on HN IIRC.
- thomasahle 4y ago
  > This is the same as if one set of friends are on WhatsApp and another set are on telegram etc… and having to deal with either switching between apps or dealing with reduced capabilities. It's not really the same, since if a group is using WhatsApp and you want to join, but don't have WhatsApp, you can simply install it. The same with all other messaging platforms. With iMessage you can join over text/MMS, but it will make the experience so much worse for everyone that most people (from my experience) will simply not allow you to join. There's a reason this is a major cause of dread for socially vulnerable teenagers https://www.wsj.com/articles/why-apples-imessage-is-winning-teens-dread-the-green-text-bubble-11641618009 https://www.wsj.com/articles/why-apples-imessage-is-winning-... but it's not that different for adults.
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]

adlpz 4y ago

I am extrapolating from my own experience. I believe you are right in the sense that most people don't really care, not in the EU and neither in the US. However I have seen first hand the Android prejudice, to call it something, in the US. And I've never seen it in the EU, where I've spent the majority of my time lately. And, conversely, I've seen plenty of prejudice against iOS in a many varied (but not all, of course) social contexts across the EU. But yes, definitely, it's anecdotal evidence based on my own experience.

blowski 4y ago
I’m in the UK, and I can’t say your description rings true to me at all. There are some fans who passionately defend their tribe while attacking the other, but most people couldn’t care less either way. I believe it’s similar in the US.
- teetertater 4y ago
  Parent said EU, not UK ;) Jokes aside I've found the UK to be closer aligned with the US socially on many things vs rest of Europe
- rickdeckard 4y ago
  Worth to note that just like US, Canada and Australia, the market share of iPhone in UK is above 50%, whereas Europe average is <40% pushing Apple to #2 or lower. The Smartphone Premium Tier device-segment (>600 USD w/o subsidy) makes up ~50% of all sales in UK, which firmly positions Apple far FAR in the lead in this segment, just like in US, UK, AU,... This is also not evenly distributed geographically (cities have a much higher sales of iPhones than rural areas). --> There are barely any "tribes" left in the higher income-brackets of UK. A person who can afford an iPhone likely owns an iPhone, so non-iPhone users are either "quirky exotics" (i.e. using a foldable device) or very likely in a lower income bracket. The lower income bracket is where the fringe of Apple/Android is, and that's where the argument of "iPhone means I'm successful" / "Android means I'm smarter" is really happening (~400USD w/o subsidy). So if you're in one of the above english-speaking countries and you don't notice this argument, you're likely in a higher income bracket and likely live in a city.

lrvick 4y ago

Some of us are polite enough to only silently judge Apple users IRL.