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> In many social contexts having an iPhone is associated with either being a mindless fanboy, a basic trend-following drone or, in general, bad with money. Thi

by mdmglr 4y ago

> In many social contexts having an iPhone is associated with either being a mindless fanboy, a basic trend-following drone or, in general, bad with money. This is a bad take and is more revealing about your social circle.

bombolo 4y ago
In europe apple stuff costs much more.
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]
- Xixi 4y ago
  It's something that I often hear, but each time I check, the difference is minimal. So I did the comparison again between France and the US, for an iPhone 14 (unlocked, 128 GB) + AppleCare+. I take the phone unlocked, with AppleCare+, to attempt a normalization across regulations. Default warranty in the US is much weaker than in the EU, but should be the same with AppleCare+. Buying a locked phone is also cheaper in the US, but AFAIK it's not possible to buy a locked phone in France anymore. US: 978 USD (excluding sales taxes), France: 1198 EUR (TTC, including sales taxes) or 998 EUR (HT, excluding sales taxes), so about 992 USD at current rate. So the iPhone in France costs about 14 USD more, or 1.45% more. That's not "much more" in my book, although it is a little bit more. I think the common mistake is to compare European prices with sales taxes (20% in France) against US prices without sales taxes... Hint: prices displayed on the Apple store in the US are always displayed without sales taxes, while in the EU prices always include sales taxes (I'm not sure it's true in all 27 member states, but it's definitely true in France).
  - Swizec 4y ago
    The difference is in salary, not price. iPhone costs as much in USA as EU in absolute terms, but when that’s 50% of your monthly income, you go buy a cheap (or telecom sponsored) Android. It won’t be a flagship Android but at least there’s an option you can buy that on paper has all the same specs.
    - Xixi 4y ago
      Indeed, I would have agreed 200% with the following: "In Europe Apple stuff costs much more, relative to income." But I've read so many times (on French forums) people argue that Apple is overcharging EU citizens by forgetting to adjust for sales taxes that I defaulted to interpret "In Europe Apple stuff costs much more" that way. In a way it makes sense, in France what you see is what you get, so the typical French consumer expects the sticker price on the US Apple Store to be the final price. In fact it's the law: in France you have to honor the sticker price, even if it's wrong (unless it's an obvious mistake, but the bar for obvious mistake is quite high).
      - Swizec 4y ago
        Well there is a big difference in sales taxes. When I first started regularly going to USA some friend or another would always ask to bring back an iPhone. Because sales tax here is 7% and VAT is 22% back home.
        bombolo 4y ago
        Ah yes, a friend of mine figured it was cheaper to fly from EU to nyc, buy a couple of macbook pro and come back, than to just get them in a shop here.
DrBenCarson 4y ago
People want to feel better about themselves despite having an objectively inferior product
bakugo 4y ago
Because it's generally true?
nine_k 4y ago
US salaries are much higher. What looks like a reasonable spending on quality and privacy (especially with an operator offering a loan) when you make $180k, may look senseless display of wealth when you make $90k. Replace iPhone with something like Vertu.
- mdmglr 4y ago
  I'm glad you know every European iPhone owners' financial situation. Good for you. Also I happen to live part of the year in Europe. And found the price of Apple products to be within 10% of Apple US.
  - arvindamirtaa 4y ago
    I'm glad you do
  - nine_k 4y ago
    The thing is that I have a ton of friends all over EU, UK, and Switzerland, and have an idea of the salaries, mostly in the IT. I'm not speaking from some theoretical assumptions. I don't need to know the financial situation of the iPhone owners. I need to know the financial situation of the 50% of population, to compare to the 50% penetration rate in the US. As much as I understand, phone carriers / operators subsidize phones in Europe to a much smaller extent than in the US, too.
    - scarface74 4y ago
      So your friends in IT are representative?
      - nine_k 4y ago
        They are hold comparable positions in several countries, in Europe and in US.
        scarface74 4y ago
adlpz 4y ago
It is most definitely not a bad take as I'm literally saying just what you imply: as per my comment, in many social circles that is what I've observed. Which does reveal about my social circles. Which are circles I've come across in several countries throughout Europe, and across a large spread of socio-economic contexts. You can argue that your experience is different, I'm just providing mine which I've experienced consistently enough to find it worth pointing as a common divergence from what I see in the US.
- scarface74 4y ago
  If people in the EU don’t care about iMessage interoperability, then why is the government so keen on forcing Apple to make iMessage interoperate with other platforms? https://9to5mac.com/2022/03/24/eu-legislation-to-make-imessage-and-other-messaging-apps-interoperable/ https://9to5mac.com/2022/03/24/eu-legislation-to-make-imessa... And the only stats I could find say that iMessage is used more than WeChat https://www.androidauthority.com/imessage-big-deal-guide-3087606/ https://www.androidauthority.com/imessage-big-deal-guide-308... Could it be that maybe your anecdote is meaningless outside of your bubble?
  - eredengrin 4y ago
    > If people in the EU don’t care about iMessage interoperability, then why is the government so keen on forcing Apple to make iMessage interoperate with other platforms? The legislation is aimed at opening up the APIs of all messaging apps/companies which meet their criteria for being a "gatekeeper". Apple simply happens to meet those criteria. > And the only stats I could find say that iMessage is used more than WeChat Your article called their data an estimate without giving any insight into how the data was estimated, other than the caveat that it may include users who only used imessage for sms.
    - scarface74 4y ago
      > Your article called their data an estimate without giving any insight into how the data was estimated, other than the caveat that it may include users who only used imessage for sms You mean anecdata without hard facts are meaningless??? You don’t say.

by mdmglr 4y ago

bombolo 4y ago

In europe apple stuff costs much more.

deleted 4y ago
[deleted]
Xixi 4y ago
It's something that I often hear, but each time I check, the difference is minimal. So I did the comparison again between France and the US, for an iPhone 14 (unlocked, 128 GB) + AppleCare+. I take the phone unlocked, with AppleCare+, to attempt a normalization across regulations. Default warranty in the US is much weaker than in the EU, but should be the same with AppleCare+. Buying a locked phone is also cheaper in the US, but AFAIK it's not possible to buy a locked phone in France anymore. US: 978 USD (excluding sales taxes), France: 1198 EUR (TTC, including sales taxes) or 998 EUR (HT, excluding sales taxes), so about 992 USD at current rate. So the iPhone in France costs about 14 USD more, or 1.45% more. That's not "much more" in my book, although it is a little bit more. I think the common mistake is to compare European prices with sales taxes (20% in France) against US prices without sales taxes... Hint: prices displayed on the Apple store in the US are always displayed without sales taxes, while in the EU prices always include sales taxes (I'm not sure it's true in all 27 member states, but it's definitely true in France).
- Swizec 4y ago
  The difference is in salary, not price. iPhone costs as much in USA as EU in absolute terms, but when that’s 50% of your monthly income, you go buy a cheap (or telecom sponsored) Android. It won’t be a flagship Android but at least there’s an option you can buy that on paper has all the same specs.
  - Xixi 4y ago
    Indeed, I would have agreed 200% with the following: "In Europe Apple stuff costs much more, relative to income." But I've read so many times (on French forums) people argue that Apple is overcharging EU citizens by forgetting to adjust for sales taxes that I defaulted to interpret "In Europe Apple stuff costs much more" that way. In a way it makes sense, in France what you see is what you get, so the typical French consumer expects the sticker price on the US Apple Store to be the final price. In fact it's the law: in France you have to honor the sticker price, even if it's wrong (unless it's an obvious mistake, but the bar for obvious mistake is quite high).
    - Swizec 4y ago
      Well there is a big difference in sales taxes. When I first started regularly going to USA some friend or another would always ask to bring back an iPhone. Because sales tax here is 7% and VAT is 22% back home.
      - bombolo 4y ago
        Ah yes, a friend of mine figured it was cheaper to fly from EU to nyc, buy a couple of macbook pro and come back, than to just get them in a shop here.

DrBenCarson 4y ago

People want to feel better about themselves despite having an objectively inferior product

bakugo 4y ago

Because it's generally true?

nine_k 4y ago

US salaries are much higher. What looks like a reasonable spending on quality and privacy (especially with an operator offering a loan) when you make $180k, may look senseless display of wealth when you make $90k. Replace iPhone with something like Vertu.

mdmglr 4y ago
I'm glad you know every European iPhone owners' financial situation. Good for you. Also I happen to live part of the year in Europe. And found the price of Apple products to be within 10% of Apple US.
- arvindamirtaa 4y ago
  I'm glad you do
- nine_k 4y ago
  The thing is that I have a ton of friends all over EU, UK, and Switzerland, and have an idea of the salaries, mostly in the IT. I'm not speaking from some theoretical assumptions. I don't need to know the financial situation of the iPhone owners. I need to know the financial situation of the 50% of population, to compare to the 50% penetration rate in the US. As much as I understand, phone carriers / operators subsidize phones in Europe to a much smaller extent than in the US, too.
  - scarface74 4y ago
    So your friends in IT are representative?
    - nine_k 4y ago
      They are hold comparable positions in several countries, in Europe and in US.
      - scarface74 4y ago

adlpz 4y ago

It is most definitely not a bad take as I'm literally saying just what you imply: as per my comment, in many social circles that is what I've observed. Which does reveal about my social circles. Which are circles I've come across in several countries throughout Europe, and across a large spread of socio-economic contexts. You can argue that your experience is different, I'm just providing mine which I've experienced consistently enough to find it worth pointing as a common divergence from what I see in the US.

scarface74 4y ago
If people in the EU don’t care about iMessage interoperability, then why is the government so keen on forcing Apple to make iMessage interoperate with other platforms? https://9to5mac.com/2022/03/24/eu-legislation-to-make-imessage-and-other-messaging-apps-interoperable/ https://9to5mac.com/2022/03/24/eu-legislation-to-make-imessa... And the only stats I could find say that iMessage is used more than WeChat https://www.androidauthority.com/imessage-big-deal-guide-3087606/ https://www.androidauthority.com/imessage-big-deal-guide-308... Could it be that maybe your anecdote is meaningless outside of your bubble?
- eredengrin 4y ago
  > If people in the EU don’t care about iMessage interoperability, then why is the government so keen on forcing Apple to make iMessage interoperate with other platforms? The legislation is aimed at opening up the APIs of all messaging apps/companies which meet their criteria for being a "gatekeeper". Apple simply happens to meet those criteria. > And the only stats I could find say that iMessage is used more than WeChat Your article called their data an estimate without giving any insight into how the data was estimated, other than the caveat that it may include users who only used imessage for sms.
  - scarface74 4y ago
    > Your article called their data an estimate without giving any insight into how the data was estimated, other than the caveat that it may include users who only used imessage for sms You mean anecdata without hard facts are meaningless??? You don’t say.