3 ms·

I hate this phrase and I'm not sure why it's getting so much more popular. It's just pithy because it concerns an unliked figure, a devil. We could easily say i

I hate this phrase and I'm not sure why it's getting so much more popular. It's just pithy because it concerns an unliked figure, a devil. We could easily say instead "looking at the other side of the coin" but no one would then say "the coin doesn't need more sides" because that wouldn't make any more sense.

eropple 4y ago
That isn't true, though. The phrase "devil's advocate" almost always refers to taking the other side of an issue where doing so is understood to be negative. When used to low-key argue in favor of the position because one believes in shitty things--and it's usually pretty obvious!--the user of the phrase is merely telling on themselves. "Well, maybe shitty people doing shitty things is good, actually??" does no one any favors.
- cercatrova 4y ago
  No, the phrase is most often used to simply mean, "the other side of this discussion." In fact I almost never see it to mean what you said, to take the side of the negative side of an issue where said negative side would condemn one to be a "shitty person." It seems again that the phrasing creates this pervasive idea that the person using the phrase is using it in a fully intended negative way when it's just said off hand without thought. That is to say, it is replaceable with a phrase like "looking at the other side of the coin," as I initially stated. Examples: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=33544320 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=33544320 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=6315113#6315483 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=6315113#6315483 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=2564385 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=2564385
- freedomben 4y ago
  I'm sympathetic to your view, but I worry where it leads us too. Is it people never questioning whether they're "on the right side" or doing the right thing? Some of the worst things I've seen done were done by people who thought they were doing good.
  - eropple 4y ago
    Sorry, did I imply somewhere that criticism is bad? Because heck no, and if I apologize. Counter-analysis is important! Critical, even. And there are plenty of ways to do that. Like "if I were to steelman the opposition". Or, if you're going to put your chips down: "this feels incorrect, because X." That particular phrase is pretty much used for bad faith remarks when one wants to distance themselves from the blast radius. It's hiding the ball. Doubly so when one, as the person to whom I replied did, has to invent a situation where it'd be okay (so as to imply by transference that others are okay).

eropple 4y ago

That isn't true, though. The phrase "devil's advocate" almost always refers to taking the other side of an issue where doing so is understood to be negative. When used to low-key argue in favor of the position because one believes in shitty things--and it's usually pretty obvious!--the user of the phrase is merely telling on themselves. "Well, maybe shitty people doing shitty things is good, actually??" does no one any favors.

cercatrova 4y ago
No, the phrase is most often used to simply mean, "the other side of this discussion." In fact I almost never see it to mean what you said, to take the side of the negative side of an issue where said negative side would condemn one to be a "shitty person." It seems again that the phrasing creates this pervasive idea that the person using the phrase is using it in a fully intended negative way when it's just said off hand without thought. That is to say, it is replaceable with a phrase like "looking at the other side of the coin," as I initially stated. Examples: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=33544320 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=33544320 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=6315113#6315483 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=6315113#6315483 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=2564385 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=2564385
freedomben 4y ago
I'm sympathetic to your view, but I worry where it leads us too. Is it people never questioning whether they're "on the right side" or doing the right thing? Some of the worst things I've seen done were done by people who thought they were doing good.
- eropple 4y ago
  Sorry, did I imply somewhere that criticism is bad? Because heck no, and if I apologize. Counter-analysis is important! Critical, even. And there are plenty of ways to do that. Like "if I were to steelman the opposition". Or, if you're going to put your chips down: "this feels incorrect, because X." That particular phrase is pretty much used for bad faith remarks when one wants to distance themselves from the blast radius. It's hiding the ball. Doubly so when one, as the person to whom I replied did, has to invent a situation where it'd be okay (so as to imply by transference that others are okay).