4 ms·

The difference is in the on-road experience. With this you are classified as a motor vehicle and can expect to keep up with and maneuver through road speed traf

by ehnto 4y ago

The difference is in the on-road experience. With this you are classified as a motor vehicle and can expect to keep up with and maneuver through road speed traffic. That's actually what pedal-assist restrictions are all about, clearly delineating the bicycles from the motorbikes. This also manages expectations for users. You shouldn't expect to play in traffic at 60+kmph as a cyclist, and you shouldn't expect to be riding your much heavier, much faster electric moped on bike paths. The form factors can make that line blurry, you could totally have a bicycle that can do 60+ and you could easily have a moped that looks small enough to be a bicycle. Hence the regulations to clear up any confusion. From a personal exprience point of view, I would expect to be able to comfortably wear leathers and a moto helmet and not negatively impact the ride. On a pedal assist bicycle there is no way I am wearing leathers and because of that I don't want to be going 60-80kmph in traffic unprotected, I want to be on seperated bike paths.

pavon 4y ago
When I bought my scooter the 50cc models I test drove could not reliably keep up with 30-35mph traffic. My 125cc does fine up to 45mph except on a steep incline.
deleted 4y ago
[deleted]
etrautmann 4y ago
and yet here in NYC, we have people taking electric mopeds down the Hudson greenway and other protected pedestrian+bike paths.
- CoffeeOnWrite 4y ago
  I visited NYC this summer and observed a significant volume of gas mopeds on the protected bike paths. Gross!
- ehnto 4y ago
  Oh I believe that, NYC is chaos. I bet people use those gas powered one-wheels wherever they want too
nicbou 4y ago
In Germany, this is the opposite of what I want. I'm a long-time motorcyclist, but around the city, I prefer my bicycle. I can go on beautiful bike paths through parks, take breaks along the river, and not worry about a helmet hair. At lower speeds I don't need protective gear. I can carry much more stuff with my saddle bags. Oh and there are no biannual inspections, no insurance, no petrol. Maintaining a bicycle is a breeze. In Berlin, bicycle is just better. An electric one would be just as good, even with the EU limitations.
ekidd 4y ago
To give people an idea of the subjective difference... Decades ago, I used to be a bicycle commuter in Somerville, MA (USA). There weren't any usable bike paths, and so cyclists had to use the street and follow traffic rules like any other vehicle—lanes, signaling, etc. Local police enthusiastically enforced the law, and normally expected adult bikes to act as vehicles. Drivers were typical for the Boston area: Aggressive, minimal use of signals, but good awareness. There was a major 3-lane intersection with roads going (left)/(left+straight)/(straight+right). A safe left turn required moving into and fully occupying the middle lane in traffic, typically sprinting at around 30 km/h. Which is about the top legal speed I've seen for pedal assist. This is not an especially comfortable speed in complex traffic, and I didn't enjoy it. I don't think you'd want lots of unskilled people doing this on ebikes, either. With 30 km/h intersections, you want people to be predictable and to strictly follow all traffic laws. And to be honest, casual cyclists do not reliably follow traffic laws. On steep, empty roads, I've twice hit about 65 km/h on descents on road bikes. I personally found this unnerving without full motorcycle gear, especially when I encountered poor road conditions on a corner. Never again. So yeah, an electric moped is a whole different game than a class 1 peddle-assist ebike. 30 km/h accidents can be awful, but 50 km/h accidents can easily turn deadly for the unprotected human body.
- dsfyu404ed 4y ago
  >you want people to be predictable and to strictly follow all traffic laws There's a pretty strong contradiction here. Nowhere on earth, except maybe North Korea does the traffic actually reflect the law. And IMO predictability > letter of the law every time.
JCharante 4y ago
I’ve gone 50-60 kmph with traffic before on a road bike, it’s not too hard because the cars provide a lot of draft, but yeah I wouldn’t want to be mixed with traffic on two wheels, even with leathers you can still get run over by the car right behind you. I’ve seen countless instances of a motorbike hitting a pothole and then getting run over by an SUV or just a bus turning and not noticing a motorbike.
- ehnto 4y ago
  You're also a whole lot less visible as a bicycle, which is an issue even at 20kmph, you'd have people pancaked in no time if you could all-motor around at 60kmph on a vehicle that only has bicycle lighting regulations.

by ehnto 4y ago

pavon 4y ago

When I bought my scooter the 50cc models I test drove could not reliably keep up with 30-35mph traffic. My 125cc does fine up to 45mph except on a steep incline.

deleted 4y ago

[deleted]

etrautmann 4y ago

and yet here in NYC, we have people taking electric mopeds down the Hudson greenway and other protected pedestrian+bike paths.

CoffeeOnWrite 4y ago
I visited NYC this summer and observed a significant volume of gas mopeds on the protected bike paths. Gross!
ehnto 4y ago
Oh I believe that, NYC is chaos. I bet people use those gas powered one-wheels wherever they want too

nicbou 4y ago

In Germany, this is the opposite of what I want. I'm a long-time motorcyclist, but around the city, I prefer my bicycle. I can go on beautiful bike paths through parks, take breaks along the river, and not worry about a helmet hair. At lower speeds I don't need protective gear. I can carry much more stuff with my saddle bags. Oh and there are no biannual inspections, no insurance, no petrol. Maintaining a bicycle is a breeze. In Berlin, bicycle is just better. An electric one would be just as good, even with the EU limitations.

ekidd 4y ago

To give people an idea of the subjective difference... Decades ago, I used to be a bicycle commuter in Somerville, MA (USA). There weren't any usable bike paths, and so cyclists had to use the street and follow traffic rules like any other vehicle—lanes, signaling, etc. Local police enthusiastically enforced the law, and normally expected adult bikes to act as vehicles. Drivers were typical for the Boston area: Aggressive, minimal use of signals, but good awareness. There was a major 3-lane intersection with roads going (left)/(left+straight)/(straight+right). A safe left turn required moving into and fully occupying the middle lane in traffic, typically sprinting at around 30 km/h. Which is about the top legal speed I've seen for pedal assist. This is not an especially comfortable speed in complex traffic, and I didn't enjoy it. I don't think you'd want lots of unskilled people doing this on ebikes, either. With 30 km/h intersections, you want people to be predictable and to strictly follow all traffic laws. And to be honest, casual cyclists do not reliably follow traffic laws. On steep, empty roads, I've twice hit about 65 km/h on descents on road bikes. I personally found this unnerving without full motorcycle gear, especially when I encountered poor road conditions on a corner. Never again. So yeah, an electric moped is a whole different game than a class 1 peddle-assist ebike. 30 km/h accidents can be awful, but 50 km/h accidents can easily turn deadly for the unprotected human body.

dsfyu404ed 4y ago
>you want people to be predictable and to strictly follow all traffic laws There's a pretty strong contradiction here. Nowhere on earth, except maybe North Korea does the traffic actually reflect the law. And IMO predictability > letter of the law every time.

JCharante 4y ago

I’ve gone 50-60 kmph with traffic before on a road bike, it’s not too hard because the cars provide a lot of draft, but yeah I wouldn’t want to be mixed with traffic on two wheels, even with leathers you can still get run over by the car right behind you. I’ve seen countless instances of a motorbike hitting a pothole and then getting run over by an SUV or just a bus turning and not noticing a motorbike.

ehnto 4y ago
You're also a whole lot less visible as a bicycle, which is an issue even at 20kmph, you'd have people pancaked in no time if you could all-motor around at 60kmph on a vehicle that only has bicycle lighting regulations.