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This is kind of fascinating. I’m not a Covid denier or anything along those lines, but a zero covid policy at this point (widely available vaccinations, clear e

This is kind of fascinating. I’m not a Covid denier or anything along those lines, but a zero covid policy at this point (widely available vaccinations, clear endemic status) just seems like a crazy policy. Like maybe the craziest thing I’ve heard of from modern China

piggybox 4y ago
Yes it's crazy, to say the least
rippercushions 4y ago
The craziest thing is that increasing amounts of Chinese people agree, and the CCP (read: Xi) still has not blinked.
Tempest1981 4y ago
What is the vaccination rate there? Are their vaccines as effective? New variants?
- theshrike79 4y ago
  The Chinese government lobbied HARD against the western RNA vaccines in the beginning. Their own vaccine didn't work with the newer variants, RNA stuff worked. It was too late to undo the lobbying they did in the first place. Now lockdowns are their only option to stop a pandemic. On the other hand the lockdowns are so strict that people are dying because of them (no food, medicine, etc. Doors physically welded shut)
JimDabell 4y ago
Why is it crazy? It’s not endemic in China, and even if everybody in China were fully vaccinated, getting to endemic state would result in millions dead. Covid is still dangerous in aggregate, even with a vaccine. There’s 1.4 billion people in China; even a tiny fraction of them dying of Covid would be a huge death toll. And that’s not counting the permanent disabilities resulting from long Covid. What’s crazy is this idea that just because the rest of the world has given up on stopping Covid, that China should just let it rip. That would be devastating to China, why would they do that? Even if you don’t care about the death and disability, it doesn’t make economic sense. Temporary targeted lockdowns are less damaging to the Chinese economy in both the short and long term than rampant death and disability.
- xvector 4y ago
  > That would be devastating to China, why would they do that? To let people get on with life. The people of the world overwhelmingly voted to get back to life even though COVID hasn't gone away. China's people want to do the same, but Xi doesn't care, that's the only reason this policy still exists. It comes down to not giving a shit about what your citizens want.
  - JimDabell 4y ago
    > To let people get on with life. But people in China are getting on with life. Lockdowns are the exception, not the rule. You’re also ignoring the millions of people that would die or become disabled. That’s not “getting on with life”, that’s the opposite. > The people of the world overwhelmingly voted to get back to life even though COVID hasn't gone away. No they didn’t. Those were decisions governments made, there was no vote. They were also decisions made after Covid became endemic in those countries. The consequences for China to let it rip when hardly anybody in China has had Covid are entirely different to the consequences for other countries to let it rip when it’s already endemic. China isn’t in that position so why would they make decisions as if they were when the consequences are so different? > China's people want to do the same How have you determined that?
- concordDance 4y ago
  Note that not all deaths are equal economically. The vast majority will be bedridden people on their last legs being pushed over the edge due to covid. These people have a negative impact on the economy.
  - JimDabell 4y ago
    > The vast majority will be bedridden people on their last legs Do you have a citation for that? There’s a big jump in mortality at age 50+, but that’s not the same thing as “the vast majority are bedridden people on their last legs”. Also, death is only part of the problem. Long Covid affects people of all ages. A typical twenty-something factory worker might not die of Covid, but that doesn’t mean long Covid can’t make them economically inactive.

piggybox 4y ago

Yes it's crazy, to say the least

rippercushions 4y ago

The craziest thing is that increasing amounts of Chinese people agree, and the CCP (read: Xi) still has not blinked.

Tempest1981 4y ago

What is the vaccination rate there? Are their vaccines as effective? New variants?

theshrike79 4y ago
The Chinese government lobbied HARD against the western RNA vaccines in the beginning. Their own vaccine didn't work with the newer variants, RNA stuff worked. It was too late to undo the lobbying they did in the first place. Now lockdowns are their only option to stop a pandemic. On the other hand the lockdowns are so strict that people are dying because of them (no food, medicine, etc. Doors physically welded shut)

JimDabell 4y ago

Why is it crazy? It’s not endemic in China, and even if everybody in China were fully vaccinated, getting to endemic state would result in millions dead. Covid is still dangerous in aggregate, even with a vaccine. There’s 1.4 billion people in China; even a tiny fraction of them dying of Covid would be a huge death toll. And that’s not counting the permanent disabilities resulting from long Covid. What’s crazy is this idea that just because the rest of the world has given up on stopping Covid, that China should just let it rip. That would be devastating to China, why would they do that? Even if you don’t care about the death and disability, it doesn’t make economic sense. Temporary targeted lockdowns are less damaging to the Chinese economy in both the short and long term than rampant death and disability.

xvector 4y ago
> That would be devastating to China, why would they do that? To let people get on with life. The people of the world overwhelmingly voted to get back to life even though COVID hasn't gone away. China's people want to do the same, but Xi doesn't care, that's the only reason this policy still exists. It comes down to not giving a shit about what your citizens want.
- JimDabell 4y ago
  > To let people get on with life. But people in China are getting on with life. Lockdowns are the exception, not the rule. You’re also ignoring the millions of people that would die or become disabled. That’s not “getting on with life”, that’s the opposite. > The people of the world overwhelmingly voted to get back to life even though COVID hasn't gone away. No they didn’t. Those were decisions governments made, there was no vote. They were also decisions made after Covid became endemic in those countries. The consequences for China to let it rip when hardly anybody in China has had Covid are entirely different to the consequences for other countries to let it rip when it’s already endemic. China isn’t in that position so why would they make decisions as if they were when the consequences are so different? > China's people want to do the same How have you determined that?
concordDance 4y ago
Note that not all deaths are equal economically. The vast majority will be bedridden people on their last legs being pushed over the edge due to covid. These people have a negative impact on the economy.
- JimDabell 4y ago
  > The vast majority will be bedridden people on their last legs Do you have a citation for that? There’s a big jump in mortality at age 50+, but that’s not the same thing as “the vast majority are bedridden people on their last legs”. Also, death is only part of the problem. Long Covid affects people of all ages. A typical twenty-something factory worker might not die of Covid, but that doesn’t mean long Covid can’t make them economically inactive.