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We used to build a lot of stuff (and I'm sure we still do) in the west. The problem is costs. The workaround is automation (see Tesla e.g.). I'm pretty sure

• jpgvm 4y ago
  It's not just about the depth (of which the Chinese has plenty) but also scale, cost of transport of inputs (which are all either made in Shenzhen already or available in quantity and stocked close by) access to skilled labor in the quantities needed, services to handle any layer of the chain at arms reach - need a board respun because components have dried up? Sure you can get guys in the US to do it but your board or assembly partner in Shenzhen can also just get it handled for you, pay the right amount of money and it can be done essentially tomorrow. There is also proximity to packaging and larger manufacturing, want to get a custom injection molded case or even some fancy CNC milled one? Yeah you can get that too, probably within 30-40mins by truck of where your boards are being made and your final assembly partner also. I guess what I am getting at is that it's the only place on earth with such centralized infrastructure for making nearly anything, nothing is hard, nothing is far away, nothing is "not stocked here", it just makes for a much more convenient way to build products. My experience "being there" was that I don't think you can replicate it easily. It has its own vibe, culture and way of Just Getting Shit Done that just feels unique.
  • YZF 4y ago
    These capabilities (not at that scale but still) were more common in more places in the 90's. Things like computers, phones, TVs, audio equipment, appliances, cars etc. etc. were not made in China back then. Definitely somewhat smaller scale though, there's a lot more consumers around these days. Even today- I'm not in a real tech hub by any means but there are many injection molding places within a drive distance from me. There are also plenty of machine shops with CNCs. In the industrial area near where I live there are some major car parts manufacturers, they build yachts and more. Again, this isn't a major tech hub but you can probably make anything here, it's just gonna be very expensive. I've heard a lot about Chinese manufacturing and I do get what you're saying. Yes it's pretty amazing today (which isn't just because of China's entrepreneurs, it's also western entrepreneurs helping create this ecosystem). But I think it's not impossible to replicate. It wouldn't be the same, we can move things relatively easily in North America, we don't need one dense city that does everything with workers living in factories. But we do need a lot more automation to replace humans. I've never seen manufacturing in China in person but I have seen large scale manufacturing in Taiwan. A lot of that was designed/built by western companies. In terms of costs ofcourse they're lower when you pay people less, when the living conditions are worse, when there's no worker protection, environmental or health and safety requirements... While I'm rambling ;) another thing that we need to consider is just making better quality goods that last longer. Then "cheap" is less of a factor.
    • xvector 4y ago
      > I'm not in a real tech hub by any means but there are many injection molding places within a drive distance from me No matter where you live it almost certainly doesn't have anywhere close to the same density and variety of manufacturing hubs in China! There's also the culture aspect, arguably more important. It can't be overstated. People get shit done in the order of minutes. We are talking as low as 30 minutes to go from factory to factory. There's a hustle and "get shit done" culture that simply isn't replicated in the West. It's like asking, why does Silicon Valley exist in the Bay Area? Why can't it exist in Kansas, which also has people? - There's a unique culture and concentration of knowledge in the Bay Area. Offices for big tech companies are within minutes of each other, etc.
    • jpgvm 4y ago
      I think you are drastically underestimating both the density and the scale and overestimating how much "Westerners" are propping up or otherwise essential for it's function, sure there are lots of Westerner entrepreneurs there (myself included at one point) but the reality is both Mainland and HK entrepreneurs not only drastically outnumber us but they were also the ones kicking most of the home runs and might I say the braver more creative ones (contrary to Western harbored stereotypes). I recommend you go and see for yourself. It's really something that is very difficult to comprehend until you see it in person.
• s3000 4y ago
  >The workaround is automation (see Tesla e.g.). The irony of automation [1]: "the more sophisticated we make that automation, the more we become dependent on a highly skilled human operator" A single company can move back but if all companies leave China, how do they get the skilled operators? [1] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=33476157 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=33476157
• FabHK 4y ago
  > The problem is big public companies live quarter to quarter. I think that's a bit of a myth. Apple should (and probably does) have the longterm view on this, I'd hope. And I'm pretty sure proper accounting would present the requisite massive investments in a light that shareholders do not disapprove of. > I'm pretty sure that with a large enough investment Apple could make phones in the US for cheaper than they do in China (including the entire supply chain). That I am not so sure. The infrastructure and resources available in China are tremendous.