3 ms·

If I think abortion is fine but spiraling deficits are not am I left wing or right wing? I suggest an alternative stratagem: partner up with a righty/lefty on

If I think abortion is fine but spiraling deficits are not am I left wing or right wing? I suggest an alternative stratagem: partner up with a righty/lefty on orthogonal issues, split both votes, and then collaborate honorably once one of you is in power. As if you are in cahoots but openly. Like a coalition of some sort.

dghlsakjg 4y ago
It was a simplified example to explain the game theory behind it. Abortion/deficits is a result of that. You find (or create) wedge issues that act as an issue that voters won’t budge on, thereby deciding their vote. If 50% or more of the population feels strongly enough about a given issue that they will always vote based on it then you position yourself as the party that supports that issue and you have a guaranteed win. I don’t like the system, just explaining that those are the incentives that the rules create.
reducesuffering 4y ago
Oh this one is easy. You know which US party is on the side of "abortion is fine." As to "spiraling deficits", take a look at the US deficit per year[0]. Where the Bush Administration caused the massive doozy of the 2008 recession where deficits spiked. And then the Obama Administration, upon inheriting that mess, reduced the deficit every single year until 2016. Then, the deficit increased every year under the Trump administration. You would be Democratic party "left wing" by both accounts. [0]https://www.thebalancemoney.com/us-deficit-by-year-3306306 https://www.thebalancemoney.com/us-deficit-by-year-3306306
- dane-pgp 4y ago
  To add to your point, the U.S. government suffered budget deficits every year from 1970 through 1997, then when Bill Clinton was president in 1998, the government finally recorded a surplus. There were also budget surpluses in 1999, 2000 and in 2001. 2001 was the last year the Clinton administration proposed the budget. Republican George W. Bush succeeded Clinton in 2001, and the US went back to having a budget deficit in 2002. https://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2010/02/03/cnn-fact-check-the-last-president-to-balance-the-budget/ https://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2010/02/03/cnn-fact-ch...
  - jfengel 4y ago
    That's a bit of a coincidence. Bill Clinton presided over the original dotcom boom, which produced a ton of federal tax revenue without any actual work on the government's part. Bush Jr's deficits are due in large part to an economic crash that actually begun under Clinton, as the dotcom boom failed. Which doesn't really undercut the point: Republicans aren't actually very good at deficit reduction. Deficit reduction requires either increased revenue or decreased spending. They never substantially decrease spending (they always focus on a few small programs they're ideologically opposed to) and prominently run to decrease revenue. Their supposition that lower taxes will somehow increase revenue has never once worked in practice and was always ridiculous in theory. Democrats don't generally cut the deficit either, except for Bill Clinton's fortunate streak. But at least they don't pretend otherwise, and they don't present it as a tradeoff of "Sure, we're barbaric on human rights issues, but at least we'll lower your taxes while magically decreasing the deficit."
bradknowles 4y ago
If you thought there was honor amongst thieves, I can assure you that there is none amongst politicians.
EricE 4y ago
The solution to this is federalism - deconcentrated power at the state level - having one approach to lord over all - especially for a country as large and diverse as the US is asinine. The sooner we go back to federalism and neuter the federal government, the better.

dghlsakjg 4y ago

It was a simplified example to explain the game theory behind it. Abortion/deficits is a result of that. You find (or create) wedge issues that act as an issue that voters won’t budge on, thereby deciding their vote. If 50% or more of the population feels strongly enough about a given issue that they will always vote based on it then you position yourself as the party that supports that issue and you have a guaranteed win. I don’t like the system, just explaining that those are the incentives that the rules create.

reducesuffering 4y ago

Oh this one is easy. You know which US party is on the side of "abortion is fine." As to "spiraling deficits", take a look at the US deficit per year[0]. Where the Bush Administration caused the massive doozy of the 2008 recession where deficits spiked. And then the Obama Administration, upon inheriting that mess, reduced the deficit every single year until 2016. Then, the deficit increased every year under the Trump administration. You would be Democratic party "left wing" by both accounts. [0]https://www.thebalancemoney.com/us-deficit-by-year-3306306 https://www.thebalancemoney.com/us-deficit-by-year-3306306

dane-pgp 4y ago
To add to your point, the U.S. government suffered budget deficits every year from 1970 through 1997, then when Bill Clinton was president in 1998, the government finally recorded a surplus. There were also budget surpluses in 1999, 2000 and in 2001. 2001 was the last year the Clinton administration proposed the budget. Republican George W. Bush succeeded Clinton in 2001, and the US went back to having a budget deficit in 2002. https://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2010/02/03/cnn-fact-check-the-last-president-to-balance-the-budget/ https://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2010/02/03/cnn-fact-ch...
- jfengel 4y ago
  That's a bit of a coincidence. Bill Clinton presided over the original dotcom boom, which produced a ton of federal tax revenue without any actual work on the government's part. Bush Jr's deficits are due in large part to an economic crash that actually begun under Clinton, as the dotcom boom failed. Which doesn't really undercut the point: Republicans aren't actually very good at deficit reduction. Deficit reduction requires either increased revenue or decreased spending. They never substantially decrease spending (they always focus on a few small programs they're ideologically opposed to) and prominently run to decrease revenue. Their supposition that lower taxes will somehow increase revenue has never once worked in practice and was always ridiculous in theory. Democrats don't generally cut the deficit either, except for Bill Clinton's fortunate streak. But at least they don't pretend otherwise, and they don't present it as a tradeoff of "Sure, we're barbaric on human rights issues, but at least we'll lower your taxes while magically decreasing the deficit."

bradknowles 4y ago

If you thought there was honor amongst thieves, I can assure you that there is none amongst politicians.

EricE 4y ago

The solution to this is federalism - deconcentrated power at the state level - having one approach to lord over all - especially for a country as large and diverse as the US is asinine. The sooner we go back to federalism and neuter the federal government, the better.