5 ms·

The Mastodon software is not horizontally scalable. So, each instance is forced to be relatively small. One instance will not be able to handle millions of user

by abzolv 4y ago

The Mastodon software is not horizontally scalable. So, each instance is forced to be relatively small. One instance will not be able to handle millions of users.

sseagull 4y ago
Neither could twitter at the beginning: https://theoutline.com/post/4147/in-twitters-early-days-only-one-celebrity-could-tweet-at-a-time https://theoutline.com/post/4147/in-twitters-early-days-only...
- haunter 4y ago
  Yeah but Mastodon is 6 years old at this point. Is it still the beginning? 6 years old Twitter already had ~200m users in 2012
abzolv 4y ago
https://github.com/mastodon/mastodon/discussions/18153 https://github.com/mastodon/mastodon/discussions/18153
the_third_wave 4y ago
If federation works as intended this should not be a problem since it should (...) not matter whether someone uses server_X.org or server_Y.net. As to whether this works in practice I have no real idea. I have self-hosted a number of Peertube instances which also support activitypub and am on-and-off experimenting with a Pixelfed instance ("Instagram goes activitypub") but since these are all small-scale experiments they neither prove nor dispell the utility of activitypub-as-a-protocol.
abzolv 4y ago
Having too many servers (many thousands) could be a big drawback for onboarding. Choice paralysis, and difficulty / time consumption of picking a suitable server to join.
- petepete 4y ago
  It definitely is. You just need to look at some Mastodon conversations from non-tech Twitter. People are confused about: * there are so many servers - which do I join? * how will I be able to tell people are who they say they are without the 'blue tick'? * if anyone can verify how do I know who is important/celebrity/official? * what do I do when the instance I want to join isn't open to registrations (and why on earth isn't it open to registrations?) * how do I discover/follow people on other instances?
  - robswc 4y ago
    Exactly. Think of how many products succeed just because they're "easier" than the alternatives. You could probably be up and tweeting in just a few minutes. You could be posting or commenting on reddit (provided the sub) in just a few minutes. I remember being interested in Mastodon as a technology a few years back. It has _always_ been confusing for a significant # of people. A decent % posts about it shouldn't be "how do I sign up, how do I follow people, how do I subscribe, which do I join, etc." That's all the Mastodon reddit was a few years back. https://www.reddit.com/r/Mastodon/top/?sort=top&t=week https://www.reddit.com/r/Mastodon/top/?sort=top&t=week Seems like minus all the posts about current events, it's still largely lots of confused users. Which sucks, because the idea seems pretty good in theory. My only qualm (besides what's already been mentioned) is what's to stop instances from colluding like reddit with it's "powermods" ? Which can honestly be worse in a lot of cases.
  - raytube 4y ago
    I have no clue which previous server I signed up to. And looking through themed servers I found one with an interest, but it's hardly my only interest and was met with welcome text saying post something interesting.
  - itslennysfault 4y ago
    As a VERY technical user. I STILL have these same problems. I've tried to join Mastodon at least a dozen times in the past few years, and every time I get stuck at step one (which server should I choose). Every server has a vibe of its own and joining one feels like an endorsement of it, and because the server name is part of your handle that endorsement follows you all over the fediverse. If I feel this confused. I can't imagine what a non-technical user would feel. It's a fatal flaw and I don't know how they overcome it. That said, I finally joined today at https://c.im https://c.im I chose it because it's short and that means I get a short @c.im handle. We'll see how this plays out (most likely with me not even using it tbh)
losteric 4y ago
> The Mastodon software is not horizontally scalable. Intentionally by design, or just a "MVP"/MLP limitation?
- speedgoose 4y ago
  The current architecture is not designed to be horizontally scalable. You need one big primary database node. That works well if you are willing to optimise a lot, see the one example: stackoverflow. But it requires a lot of efforts and cannot scale that much. One could probably create a new implementation that scale though.
  - losteric 4y ago
    I'm very new to the project. Do you happened to know if the software architecture is inherently coupled to that physical tech choice (one big postgresql)? I have seen some well architected RoR apps sidestep that limitation, but they seem to be the exception.

by abzolv 4y ago

The Mastodon software is not horizontally scalable. So, each instance is forced to be relatively small. One instance will not be able to handle millions of users.

sseagull 4y ago

Neither could twitter at the beginning: https://theoutline.com/post/4147/in-twitters-early-days-only-one-celebrity-could-tweet-at-a-time https://theoutline.com/post/4147/in-twitters-early-days-only...

haunter 4y ago
Yeah but Mastodon is 6 years old at this point. Is it still the beginning? 6 years old Twitter already had ~200m users in 2012

abzolv 4y ago

https://github.com/mastodon/mastodon/discussions/18153 https://github.com/mastodon/mastodon/discussions/18153

the_third_wave 4y ago

If federation works as intended this should not be a problem since it should (...) not matter whether someone uses server_X.org or server_Y.net. As to whether this works in practice I have no real idea. I have self-hosted a number of Peertube instances which also support activitypub and am on-and-off experimenting with a Pixelfed instance ("Instagram goes activitypub") but since these are all small-scale experiments they neither prove nor dispell the utility of activitypub-as-a-protocol.

abzolv 4y ago

Having too many servers (many thousands) could be a big drawback for onboarding. Choice paralysis, and difficulty / time consumption of picking a suitable server to join.

petepete 4y ago
It definitely is. You just need to look at some Mastodon conversations from non-tech Twitter. People are confused about: * there are so many servers - which do I join? * how will I be able to tell people are who they say they are without the 'blue tick'? * if anyone can verify how do I know who is important/celebrity/official? * what do I do when the instance I want to join isn't open to registrations (and why on earth isn't it open to registrations?) * how do I discover/follow people on other instances?
- robswc 4y ago
  Exactly. Think of how many products succeed just because they're "easier" than the alternatives. You could probably be up and tweeting in just a few minutes. You could be posting or commenting on reddit (provided the sub) in just a few minutes. I remember being interested in Mastodon as a technology a few years back. It has _always_ been confusing for a significant # of people. A decent % posts about it shouldn't be "how do I sign up, how do I follow people, how do I subscribe, which do I join, etc." That's all the Mastodon reddit was a few years back. https://www.reddit.com/r/Mastodon/top/?sort=top&t=week https://www.reddit.com/r/Mastodon/top/?sort=top&t=week Seems like minus all the posts about current events, it's still largely lots of confused users. Which sucks, because the idea seems pretty good in theory. My only qualm (besides what's already been mentioned) is what's to stop instances from colluding like reddit with it's "powermods" ? Which can honestly be worse in a lot of cases.
- raytube 4y ago
  I have no clue which previous server I signed up to. And looking through themed servers I found one with an interest, but it's hardly my only interest and was met with welcome text saying post something interesting.
- itslennysfault 4y ago
  As a VERY technical user. I STILL have these same problems. I've tried to join Mastodon at least a dozen times in the past few years, and every time I get stuck at step one (which server should I choose). Every server has a vibe of its own and joining one feels like an endorsement of it, and because the server name is part of your handle that endorsement follows you all over the fediverse. If I feel this confused. I can't imagine what a non-technical user would feel. It's a fatal flaw and I don't know how they overcome it. That said, I finally joined today at https://c.im https://c.im I chose it because it's short and that means I get a short @c.im handle. We'll see how this plays out (most likely with me not even using it tbh)

losteric 4y ago

> The Mastodon software is not horizontally scalable. Intentionally by design, or just a "MVP"/MLP limitation?

speedgoose 4y ago
The current architecture is not designed to be horizontally scalable. You need one big primary database node. That works well if you are willing to optimise a lot, see the one example: stackoverflow. But it requires a lot of efforts and cannot scale that much. One could probably create a new implementation that scale though.
- losteric 4y ago
  I'm very new to the project. Do you happened to know if the software architecture is inherently coupled to that physical tech choice (one big postgresql)? I have seen some well architected RoR apps sidestep that limitation, but they seem to be the exception.