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This is also how I remember my childhood and even early teenage years. My friends would just pop over unannounced and ask me out to play or play sports or somet

by vjk800 4y ago

This is also how I remember my childhood and even early teenage years. My friends would just pop over unannounced and ask me out to play or play sports or something. Also relatives and grandparents would do this occasionally since basically my whole extended family lived in the same village. I also feel like things would have continued the same way if it wasn't for everyone (including me) moving away to study, work, etc. As an adult, it's very difficult to reconstruct the same kind of social network once it has been broken. I think it helps to think of our social environment as some kind of ecosystem that has evolved to fulfill various needs and shouldn't be messed with. The results will be similar to if you take a few species from biological ecosystems and just randomly put them together - the result is not going to look very pretty.

elcritch 4y ago
My teenage years were similar. Cells phones were a thing but relatively rare and texting was limited. Friends in HS would often enough just drop by. Nowadays, if you just stop by a friends house, it feels borderline rude or intruding. My hypothesis is that given the rise of everyone having always connected cell phones, texting, etc, that subconsciously we've all shifted to viewing our physical homes as our form of privacy. Essentially dropping in takes away the last place we feel we can control our interactions with others.
- ajmurmann 4y ago
  I wonder how much of the changed behavior comes from the less intrusive communication options having gotten much lower effort. Even calling someone unannounced is almost unthinkable except if it's an emergency. I think that's because it's so easy to just send a text message first to ask if it's convenient. In the past text messages weren't as common. Before that, I could have called for example before stopping by a friend's house. However, I would have had to call the landline which nobody might have answered because maybe they were outside. It would also have been disruptive because anyone in their household would have felt like they needed to answer. So why not just stop by if I am passing by anyways? Now though, I better first send a text, then it's not ideal right now because they are cooking or something, so we postpone, even though I could have just helped with the cooking. But nobody wants to propose cooking together. It feels like you are imposing from both sides, but probably both sides would enjoy it. We are just overthinking it. Anecdotal data for another factor: Too much effort is made! I've recently tried to make an effort to build up more of a friend network and turn some acquaintances into friends. I've noticed that we try to make everything so "nice" that it becomes inconvenient. The hosts always spend at least an hour getting their place ready and prepping food. This leads to a "barrier entry" for getting together that makes these events less. I even brought that up one time, but hosts seem unable to reduce the effort they make. Guests commonly bring gifts. Nobody needs the gifts or the super tidy home to visit. Just ring the doorbell, grab a beer and let's just hang! I say that, but I'd never do this either because it would feel like a transgression. The only exception I've noticed is that sometimes we'll end up chatting with neighbors for a prolonged time when we randomly run into each other while going for a walk or something. However, nobody would ever say "let's take this party inside". It seems to have become cultural and I am not sure how to fix this as an individual. I think part of it is that we are always busy now or feel like we should be. Gotta run those errands, work on my side project, etc.
  - argc 4y ago
    > Anecdotal data for another factor: Too much effort is made! I've recently tried to make an effort to build up more of a friend network and turn some acquaintances into friends. I've noticed that we try to make everything so "nice" that it becomes inconvenient. The hosts always spend at least an hour getting their place ready and prepping food. Most of my adult acquaintance friends are like this, but its nice to have a handful of friends that you've known for long enough where you don't feel bad just going to their house uninvited, without bringing anything and they will do the same to you. The problem is making these friends if you don't already have them, or turning the more polite acquaintance friendships into these. I imagine it will only happen after many years of effort. I've not created this type of friend in adulthood, only have kept around the ones I had when I was younger.
  - Behemoth66 4y ago
    I lived in a very orthodox Jewish neighborhood for a while and what you described is exactly what happens on Shabbat still (since there’s no phones being used). People just feel welcome to drop by. The house is usually a total mess because « work » is not allowed, and there’s no gift bringing either because of religious reasons. I always admired it. Just one day where no one’s working or traveling and everyone’s free to come over and hangout.
    - benben613 4y ago
      Yup. Being Orthodox myself, you perfectly described it. It's refreshing, especially since they include required family meals.
  - vjk800 4y ago
    This is so close to my thinking about these things that it's almost scary considering it came from a person who presumably lives halfway across the planet from me. Since we are in HN, I feel obliged to ask: how do we fix this?
Enginerrrd 4y ago
>I think it helps to think of our social environment as some kind of ecosystem that has evolved to fulfill various needs and shouldn't be messed with. The results will be similar to if you take a few species from biological ecosystems and just randomly put them together - the result is not going to look very pretty. This is just a real gem of an analogy.
- vjk800 4y ago
  Thank you.
NL807 4y ago
> As an adult, it's very difficult to reconstruct the same kind of social network once it has been broken. This describes my parents' situation perfectly. We are a family of migrants, my parents were very social and had a big network of friends back in their home country. Even since we moved here, they became insular, and never made many long term friends. In fact, they are pretty much alone and not very happy in their older age.

by vjk800 4y ago

elcritch 4y ago

My teenage years were similar. Cells phones were a thing but relatively rare and texting was limited. Friends in HS would often enough just drop by. Nowadays, if you just stop by a friends house, it feels borderline rude or intruding. My hypothesis is that given the rise of everyone having always connected cell phones, texting, etc, that subconsciously we've all shifted to viewing our physical homes as our form of privacy. Essentially dropping in takes away the last place we feel we can control our interactions with others.

ajmurmann 4y ago
I wonder how much of the changed behavior comes from the less intrusive communication options having gotten much lower effort. Even calling someone unannounced is almost unthinkable except if it's an emergency. I think that's because it's so easy to just send a text message first to ask if it's convenient. In the past text messages weren't as common. Before that, I could have called for example before stopping by a friend's house. However, I would have had to call the landline which nobody might have answered because maybe they were outside. It would also have been disruptive because anyone in their household would have felt like they needed to answer. So why not just stop by if I am passing by anyways? Now though, I better first send a text, then it's not ideal right now because they are cooking or something, so we postpone, even though I could have just helped with the cooking. But nobody wants to propose cooking together. It feels like you are imposing from both sides, but probably both sides would enjoy it. We are just overthinking it. Anecdotal data for another factor: Too much effort is made! I've recently tried to make an effort to build up more of a friend network and turn some acquaintances into friends. I've noticed that we try to make everything so "nice" that it becomes inconvenient. The hosts always spend at least an hour getting their place ready and prepping food. This leads to a "barrier entry" for getting together that makes these events less. I even brought that up one time, but hosts seem unable to reduce the effort they make. Guests commonly bring gifts. Nobody needs the gifts or the super tidy home to visit. Just ring the doorbell, grab a beer and let's just hang! I say that, but I'd never do this either because it would feel like a transgression. The only exception I've noticed is that sometimes we'll end up chatting with neighbors for a prolonged time when we randomly run into each other while going for a walk or something. However, nobody would ever say "let's take this party inside". It seems to have become cultural and I am not sure how to fix this as an individual. I think part of it is that we are always busy now or feel like we should be. Gotta run those errands, work on my side project, etc.
- argc 4y ago
  > Anecdotal data for another factor: Too much effort is made! I've recently tried to make an effort to build up more of a friend network and turn some acquaintances into friends. I've noticed that we try to make everything so "nice" that it becomes inconvenient. The hosts always spend at least an hour getting their place ready and prepping food. Most of my adult acquaintance friends are like this, but its nice to have a handful of friends that you've known for long enough where you don't feel bad just going to their house uninvited, without bringing anything and they will do the same to you. The problem is making these friends if you don't already have them, or turning the more polite acquaintance friendships into these. I imagine it will only happen after many years of effort. I've not created this type of friend in adulthood, only have kept around the ones I had when I was younger.
- Behemoth66 4y ago
  I lived in a very orthodox Jewish neighborhood for a while and what you described is exactly what happens on Shabbat still (since there’s no phones being used). People just feel welcome to drop by. The house is usually a total mess because « work » is not allowed, and there’s no gift bringing either because of religious reasons. I always admired it. Just one day where no one’s working or traveling and everyone’s free to come over and hangout.
  - benben613 4y ago
    Yup. Being Orthodox myself, you perfectly described it. It's refreshing, especially since they include required family meals.
- vjk800 4y ago
  This is so close to my thinking about these things that it's almost scary considering it came from a person who presumably lives halfway across the planet from me. Since we are in HN, I feel obliged to ask: how do we fix this?

Enginerrrd 4y ago

>I think it helps to think of our social environment as some kind of ecosystem that has evolved to fulfill various needs and shouldn't be messed with. The results will be similar to if you take a few species from biological ecosystems and just randomly put them together - the result is not going to look very pretty. This is just a real gem of an analogy.

vjk800 4y ago
Thank you.

NL807 4y ago

> As an adult, it's very difficult to reconstruct the same kind of social network once it has been broken. This describes my parents' situation perfectly. We are a family of migrants, my parents were very social and had a big network of friends back in their home country. Even since we moved here, they became insular, and never made many long term friends. In fact, they are pretty much alone and not very happy in their older age.