10 ms·

School Took Away Smartphones. The Kids Don’t Mind

26 points by integrale 4y ago

brianmorris10 4y ago
Paywall. Welp, guess I'm not reading that one!
- dartharva 4y ago
  https://archive.ph/ovDz2 https://archive.ph/ovDz2
thenerdhead 4y ago
Here's a link to read: https://archive.ph/vj2Pv https://archive.ph/vj2Pv While I love seeing these stories about kids moderating their screentime and seeing the benefits, I worry equally as much as the early generations who grew up with an abundance of screentime (TV, Video Games, Early Internet). I think all categories of screentime are considered addictions and I wonder if distance away from them for extended periods of time helps provide enough perspective as to how much value they actually bring to your life in comparison to other people or things that do make you happy.
knaik94 4y ago
Only dumb phones seems decent in theory and for kids, it will help increase self control around screen usage, but there's a lot of unscientific theories surrounding the consequences of screen usage. People aren't forgoing real life for the sake of their phones, communication and friendships have become more technology based. The school did this as a response to a student live-streaming a fight. Banning phones is not solving the underlying problem there, it's just covering it up. It's not a big school, with only 57 students. I also strongly dislike the continued narrative of pushing "dopamine" as an "addiction" that you control with screen usage. Dopamine system dysfunction most commonly presents as ADHD, it's not a bad habit that can be fixed. I understand phones become an easy way to escape and it becomes a negative coping habit for some, and it's especially important to teach teenagers how to address it, but pretending less screen time is always a good thing is a very pre-broadband internet mindset. It's not the direction modern society is headed.
- scottiebarnes 4y ago
  There's quite a few studies showing the association between social media and depression in youth: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7392374/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7392374/
  - knaik94 4y ago
    In the paper you link, they clarify that the association between depressed mood and social media was much more significant when testing against problematic social media and internet use. Social media isn't inherently more harmful than other harmful vices. The paper struggled, and in my opinion failed, to show proper cause vs effect when seeing where a cycle of problematic social media use vs depression starts. Teaching ways to manage and control use time, and address underlying issue that would encourage escapism through the internet, is the only meaningful thing you can do. My perspective is that for all current and future generation of children, removing them from social media will be harmful than helpful because of how isolating it will be. Some foundational social skills are now built online instead of outdoors. With the hypoconnectivity, kids today have to learn skills that adults today didn't need to earn. Anecdotally I gained an appreciation for online social skills when I got a smartphone the senior year of HS. I didn't realize how much I had been left out of things simply because I wasn't able to join social networks built on Snapchat and Instagram. Discord has become the main network for most kids now.
- mlyle 4y ago
  I teach (not at a boarding school). It is infinitely better for engagement and student community to basically not have the phones out. This includes breaks and study periods. All our students have computers, too, and I allow them to be out and used only very sparingly. Basically, if you don't do this-- you either have students completely check out or need to dedicate >20% of your effort to enforcement. Students are less likely to socialize with other students outside of their preferred social groups. And all kinds of backchannel, terrible things happen between students during the school day in ways where you have much more trouble detecting and enforcing. Yes, students will need to ultimately learn to moderate technology usage themselves. But we can at least ensure the school environment is productive and safe, and allow them some more prefrontal development before asking them to fully control an addictive device in ways that many adults struggle.
animitronix 4y ago
I don't understand how smart phones became acceptable in schools... Graduated HS in 1998 and the idea is so completely foreign that I can't believe it was ever allowed. What the hell happened?? Every district should outright ban this madness.
- knaik94 4y ago
  Banning smartphones is a very short sighted decision. Society is moving towards integrating more technology in everyday usage. Banning smartphones will promote technology illiteracy. The average speed of the available internet has increased exponentially since 1998. On dialup and even dsl, a 480p video is a struggle if possible at all, but over covid it became mandatory for home internet to support 3+ simultaneous video calls every single day, with some 4k Netflix/Youtube streams during lunch or for background music. My sister actually had to do a video call demonstrating a golf swing from her phone for online gym class. In 1998 99% of consumer internet speeds were too slow to stream an audio file in high quality without buffering. Many middle and high schools have started using fleets of Chromebook for things like google classroom, textbooks, and submitting daily homework. Using computers isn't a special event that requires a class visit the computer lab. Everyone has adapted to these new trends for communication. It's fine to feel nostalgic and appreciate certain benefits in how things were in the past, but it doesn't make sense to apply the standards of 1998 to today's classrooms.
janef0421 4y ago
I find this trend of opposing and banning smartphones reductive. Smartphones are just a tool, like any other, and can be used productively or unproductively. In my view, most of the unproductive use comes from the corporate apps and platforms that are designed to maximise profit for their owners, rather than being useful to the user. I think it would be more valuable to teach teenagers how to use smartphones in an intentional and productive manner, rather than banning them.
- ratg13 4y ago
  If you don't have any control over the devices, you're fighting an uphill battle to control the students. There are more students than teachers, and students are more likely to take cues from other students rather than teachers. Leaving students to their own devices and hoping they make the right decisions would be an exercise in futility for class sizes over 15ish students.
  - janef0421 4y ago
    I don't think trying to control students is the right idea. Teenagers are their own people with their own values and desires. You aren't going to be able to have a productive relationship with them unless you respect that, and I think the failure to do so is at the root of a lot of the problems we see. Of course, that goes far beyond phones.
- tsol 4y ago
  > Smartphones are just a tool, like any other, and can be used productively or unproductively. Are you allowed to carry any tool you want in school? If it has a real reason to be used in school then sure, but that's not the case for most student.
gamblor956 4y ago
Important caveat: this was at a boarding school with 60-80 students, where the average tuition is 62,000 year. Or, IOW: an elite, selective school comprised entirely of wealthy students.
- lahvak 4y ago
  This! My experience working with underprivileged (what a strange word) kids is that for many of them, their phone is the only thing in their life that they have at least some control over and that they can consider theirs, and taking it away can solicit extremely negative and even violent reaction, so when I read that the kids did not mind, my first question was "What kind of economic background did they come from?".
- kar5pt 4y ago
  This should be at the top. I was wondering how the school managed to enforce this.
whateveracct 4y ago
I went to high school in the mid/late 00s. Phones, Gameboys, etc were all banned. They'd immediate take it away for the day if they saw you. It was fine. Do kids really just use their iPhones in plain sight now?
kar5pt 4y ago
Article is paywalled. How did the school manage to enforce this? When I was in high-school, phones were "banned", and we just got around it by putting the phone on silent and keeping it in your pocket.

26 points by integrale 4y ago

brianmorris10 4y ago

Paywall. Welp, guess I'm not reading that one!

dartharva 4y ago
https://archive.ph/ovDz2 https://archive.ph/ovDz2

thenerdhead 4y ago

Here's a link to read: https://archive.ph/vj2Pv https://archive.ph/vj2Pv While I love seeing these stories about kids moderating their screentime and seeing the benefits, I worry equally as much as the early generations who grew up with an abundance of screentime (TV, Video Games, Early Internet). I think all categories of screentime are considered addictions and I wonder if distance away from them for extended periods of time helps provide enough perspective as to how much value they actually bring to your life in comparison to other people or things that do make you happy.

knaik94 4y ago

Only dumb phones seems decent in theory and for kids, it will help increase self control around screen usage, but there's a lot of unscientific theories surrounding the consequences of screen usage. People aren't forgoing real life for the sake of their phones, communication and friendships have become more technology based. The school did this as a response to a student live-streaming a fight. Banning phones is not solving the underlying problem there, it's just covering it up. It's not a big school, with only 57 students. I also strongly dislike the continued narrative of pushing "dopamine" as an "addiction" that you control with screen usage. Dopamine system dysfunction most commonly presents as ADHD, it's not a bad habit that can be fixed. I understand phones become an easy way to escape and it becomes a negative coping habit for some, and it's especially important to teach teenagers how to address it, but pretending less screen time is always a good thing is a very pre-broadband internet mindset. It's not the direction modern society is headed.

scottiebarnes 4y ago
There's quite a few studies showing the association between social media and depression in youth: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7392374/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7392374/
- knaik94 4y ago
  In the paper you link, they clarify that the association between depressed mood and social media was much more significant when testing against problematic social media and internet use. Social media isn't inherently more harmful than other harmful vices. The paper struggled, and in my opinion failed, to show proper cause vs effect when seeing where a cycle of problematic social media use vs depression starts. Teaching ways to manage and control use time, and address underlying issue that would encourage escapism through the internet, is the only meaningful thing you can do. My perspective is that for all current and future generation of children, removing them from social media will be harmful than helpful because of how isolating it will be. Some foundational social skills are now built online instead of outdoors. With the hypoconnectivity, kids today have to learn skills that adults today didn't need to earn. Anecdotally I gained an appreciation for online social skills when I got a smartphone the senior year of HS. I didn't realize how much I had been left out of things simply because I wasn't able to join social networks built on Snapchat and Instagram. Discord has become the main network for most kids now.
mlyle 4y ago
I teach (not at a boarding school). It is infinitely better for engagement and student community to basically not have the phones out. This includes breaks and study periods. All our students have computers, too, and I allow them to be out and used only very sparingly. Basically, if you don't do this-- you either have students completely check out or need to dedicate >20% of your effort to enforcement. Students are less likely to socialize with other students outside of their preferred social groups. And all kinds of backchannel, terrible things happen between students during the school day in ways where you have much more trouble detecting and enforcing. Yes, students will need to ultimately learn to moderate technology usage themselves. But we can at least ensure the school environment is productive and safe, and allow them some more prefrontal development before asking them to fully control an addictive device in ways that many adults struggle.

animitronix 4y ago

I don't understand how smart phones became acceptable in schools... Graduated HS in 1998 and the idea is so completely foreign that I can't believe it was ever allowed. What the hell happened?? Every district should outright ban this madness.

knaik94 4y ago
Banning smartphones is a very short sighted decision. Society is moving towards integrating more technology in everyday usage. Banning smartphones will promote technology illiteracy. The average speed of the available internet has increased exponentially since 1998. On dialup and even dsl, a 480p video is a struggle if possible at all, but over covid it became mandatory for home internet to support 3+ simultaneous video calls every single day, with some 4k Netflix/Youtube streams during lunch or for background music. My sister actually had to do a video call demonstrating a golf swing from her phone for online gym class. In 1998 99% of consumer internet speeds were too slow to stream an audio file in high quality without buffering. Many middle and high schools have started using fleets of Chromebook for things like google classroom, textbooks, and submitting daily homework. Using computers isn't a special event that requires a class visit the computer lab. Everyone has adapted to these new trends for communication. It's fine to feel nostalgic and appreciate certain benefits in how things were in the past, but it doesn't make sense to apply the standards of 1998 to today's classrooms.

janef0421 4y ago

I find this trend of opposing and banning smartphones reductive. Smartphones are just a tool, like any other, and can be used productively or unproductively. In my view, most of the unproductive use comes from the corporate apps and platforms that are designed to maximise profit for their owners, rather than being useful to the user. I think it would be more valuable to teach teenagers how to use smartphones in an intentional and productive manner, rather than banning them.

ratg13 4y ago
If you don't have any control over the devices, you're fighting an uphill battle to control the students. There are more students than teachers, and students are more likely to take cues from other students rather than teachers. Leaving students to their own devices and hoping they make the right decisions would be an exercise in futility for class sizes over 15ish students.
- janef0421 4y ago
  I don't think trying to control students is the right idea. Teenagers are their own people with their own values and desires. You aren't going to be able to have a productive relationship with them unless you respect that, and I think the failure to do so is at the root of a lot of the problems we see. Of course, that goes far beyond phones.
tsol 4y ago
> Smartphones are just a tool, like any other, and can be used productively or unproductively. Are you allowed to carry any tool you want in school? If it has a real reason to be used in school then sure, but that's not the case for most student.

gamblor956 4y ago

Important caveat: this was at a boarding school with 60-80 students, where the average tuition is 62,000 year. Or, IOW: an elite, selective school comprised entirely of wealthy students.

lahvak 4y ago
This! My experience working with underprivileged (what a strange word) kids is that for many of them, their phone is the only thing in their life that they have at least some control over and that they can consider theirs, and taking it away can solicit extremely negative and even violent reaction, so when I read that the kids did not mind, my first question was "What kind of economic background did they come from?".
kar5pt 4y ago
This should be at the top. I was wondering how the school managed to enforce this.

whateveracct 4y ago

I went to high school in the mid/late 00s. Phones, Gameboys, etc were all banned. They'd immediate take it away for the day if they saw you. It was fine. Do kids really just use their iPhones in plain sight now?

kar5pt 4y ago

Article is paywalled. How did the school manage to enforce this? When I was in high-school, phones were "banned", and we just got around it by putting the phone on silent and keeping it in your pocket.