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Watching Russian convoys sport the Soviet flag pretty much signals their intention: roll into all of the old warsaw pact countries. Poland has absolutely 0 nat

Watching Russian convoys sport the Soviet flag pretty much signals their intention: roll into all of the old warsaw pact countries. Poland has absolutely 0 natural geographical barriers.

chewz 4y ago
> Poland has absolutely 0 natural geographical barriers. Except for Baltic Sea to the North, Mountains to the South, Oder River to the West and Bug River to the East... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Geography_of_Poland https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Geography_of_Poland
- mantas 4y ago
  Neither the sea nor mountains work from Kaliningrad. The border with Belarus is pretty good terrain with a fair amount of roads too.
  - chewz 4y ago
    Kalinigrad and Central Poland are separated by maze of lakes, forrest and marshes 100 km in-depth...Not exactly a tank country - Masuria had always been considered a major strategic obstacle.. Same goes for Polish-Byelorussia border - large forrests, rolling hills... Each Russian staff officer worth his salt knows details of this terrain from studying history - 1793, 1809, 1831, 1914, 1920, 1941, 1944... And impassable has different definition in XXI century then in 1812... But still...it is a terrain well suited for defense...
    - mantas 4y ago
      Situation is somewhat similar here in Lithuania. Unfortunately what I learned studying our post-WW2 resistance, it's not as obstacle as it was back then. Melioration is probably #1. Marshes are anti-tank canals, with bridges supporting tractors and trucks. Then greatly improved road network. Especially access roads for farms, forest service and so on. Impenetrable marshes and forests of 1940s where some cells held out for a decade are now zig-zagged with roads that support trucks overloaded with timber. Farms have fascinating access roads too. And Polish farms seem to have even better access roads, at least what I saw while cycling down there. Sure, it's not flatland where you can roll by tanks anywhere. But so was Ukraine in february when fields were sinkholes. And it's nowhere close to proper mountains. Or marshes of 100 years ago.
      - chewz 4y ago
        I have read in Northern Crusades [1] that in XII/XIII century forrests separating Prussia from Lithuania/Mazovia had been truly impassable (except for raiding parties - raizes) and the only campaining had been possible along large rivers. Lituanians had it easier because they had been bringing siedge equipment and canons downstream. So there is some change although meassured in centuries :) [1] https://www.amazon.com/Northern-Crusades-Second-Eric-Christiansen/dp/0140266534 https://www.amazon.com/Northern-Crusades-Second-Eric-Christi...
        mantas 4y ago
        Yes. But the huuuuge forests of XII century were converted into arable land in Commonwealth times. Export timber, then grow grain in place of the old forest and export it... And then unexpected partition happens and you can't hide in the forest anymore :/
UltraViolence 4y ago
That's a ludicrous statement. Putin clearly stated he has no such intentions and even if he had the poor performance of his armed forces will make him think twice before attacking NATO countries. After the Cold War the U.S. searched the Soviet archives for evidence of plans to attack NATO, but all these turned up nothing. The Soviet Union never had the intention to attack Western Europe and all their posturing was merely to make us believe they were stronger than they actually were. Yes, they'd won the Second World War, but only at enormous human cost. For every German soldier killed at least 5 Soviet soldiers lost their lives.
- kibwen 4y ago
  > Putin clearly stated he has no such intentions If Putin told me the sky was blue, I'd go outside and check. To describe Putin's relationship with the truth as "tenuous" would be far more generous than he deserves.
  - UltraViolence 4y ago
    For all his faults and crimes I do believe he's sincere on this. He merely wants us to keep out of "his" backyard. Read: former Soviet states are off-limits for NATO and EU membership. We've been provoking him by offering (and sometimes even bribing and prodding) former Soviet states to become NATO members. I'm no Putin fan, but I do believe he has a point here.
    - luckylion 4y ago
      But accepting that would just mean that e.g. Poland couldn't join the EU and would have to remain, even forced by the West to not make Putin sad, a Russian vassal state. Who can accept such a world order, where a tier 2 power holds everyone hostage and demands to be treated as an empire? Imagine if the British expected to still control all of the empire they once had and demanded the US, Russia and China stop India from going its own way.
      - UltraViolence 4y ago
lancelot-ru 4y ago
paganel 4y ago
> Watching Russian convoys sport the Soviet flag pretty much signals their intention: It was this flag [1], not any Soviet flag. Which, in this context, makes a lot of sense, as the current government in Ukraine tries to extricate itself as much as possible from them actually having been on the good side during WW2 (with the well-known exceptions), i.e. on Russia's side . I used to know a person closed to me who had fought on the wrong side, around the same parts where this war now takes place (Odessa, Crimea, all the way to the Don river), so I'm not commenting about this from half a world away. And no, it was not "obvious" that that was Russia's intention. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Victory_Banner_(Soviet_Union) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Victory_Banner_(Soviet_Union)
- kibwen 4y ago
  > the good side during WW2, i.e. on Russia's side (with the well-known exceptions) There are some pretty fucking big exceptions there, my friend. The USSR was perfectly content to cooperate with Nazi Germany for their own benefit until they got backstabbed.
  - helij 4y ago
    You don't know history [0][1]. Stalin was absolutely not content to cooperate with Nazi Germany as Stalin offered 1M soldiers to be sent to border with Germany if France and Britain agreed on anti-Nazi alliance. They didn't even respond. Unfortunately this only came out in 2000' when classified documents came out and Molotov–Ribbentrop Pact is the only thing people remember. Time to update your knowledge. Of course British and French were wary of communist Soviet Union but Stalin did offer it to Allies first. That's a historical fact. Once they didn't respond he tried to prevent and postpone the war with Germany with a well known Molotov–Ribbentrop Pact because documents also show that Stalin was perfectly aware that Germans will attack no matter what. The above doesn't negate Stalin's imperialistic ambitions towards Poland. [0]https://www.wsj.com/articles/stalin-first-tried-to-resist-hitler-with-great-britain-11589838192 https://www.wsj.com/articles/stalin-first-tried-to-resist-hi... [1]https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/russia/3223834/Stalin-planned-to-send-a-million-troops-to-stop-Hitler-if-Britain-and-France-agreed-pact.html https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/russia/322...
lamontcg 4y ago
Well Putin can't manage to cross the Dnipro, so I don't think Poland needs to worry too much unless he starts to pop off nukes.

Watching Russian convoys sport the Soviet flag pretty much signals their intention: roll into all of the old warsaw pact countries. Poland has absolutely 0 natural geographical barriers.

chewz 4y ago

> Poland has absolutely 0 natural geographical barriers. Except for Baltic Sea to the North, Mountains to the South, Oder River to the West and Bug River to the East... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Geography_of_Poland https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Geography_of_Poland

mantas 4y ago
Neither the sea nor mountains work from Kaliningrad. The border with Belarus is pretty good terrain with a fair amount of roads too.
- chewz 4y ago
  Kalinigrad and Central Poland are separated by maze of lakes, forrest and marshes 100 km in-depth...Not exactly a tank country - Masuria had always been considered a major strategic obstacle.. Same goes for Polish-Byelorussia border - large forrests, rolling hills... Each Russian staff officer worth his salt knows details of this terrain from studying history - 1793, 1809, 1831, 1914, 1920, 1941, 1944... And impassable has different definition in XXI century then in 1812... But still...it is a terrain well suited for defense...
  - mantas 4y ago
    Situation is somewhat similar here in Lithuania. Unfortunately what I learned studying our post-WW2 resistance, it's not as obstacle as it was back then. Melioration is probably #1. Marshes are anti-tank canals, with bridges supporting tractors and trucks. Then greatly improved road network. Especially access roads for farms, forest service and so on. Impenetrable marshes and forests of 1940s where some cells held out for a decade are now zig-zagged with roads that support trucks overloaded with timber. Farms have fascinating access roads too. And Polish farms seem to have even better access roads, at least what I saw while cycling down there. Sure, it's not flatland where you can roll by tanks anywhere. But so was Ukraine in february when fields were sinkholes. And it's nowhere close to proper mountains. Or marshes of 100 years ago.
    - chewz 4y ago
      I have read in Northern Crusades [1] that in XII/XIII century forrests separating Prussia from Lithuania/Mazovia had been truly impassable (except for raiding parties - raizes) and the only campaining had been possible along large rivers. Lituanians had it easier because they had been bringing siedge equipment and canons downstream. So there is some change although meassured in centuries :) [1] https://www.amazon.com/Northern-Crusades-Second-Eric-Christiansen/dp/0140266534 https://www.amazon.com/Northern-Crusades-Second-Eric-Christi...
      - mantas 4y ago
        Yes. But the huuuuge forests of XII century were converted into arable land in Commonwealth times. Export timber, then grow grain in place of the old forest and export it... And then unexpected partition happens and you can't hide in the forest anymore :/

UltraViolence 4y ago

That's a ludicrous statement. Putin clearly stated he has no such intentions and even if he had the poor performance of his armed forces will make him think twice before attacking NATO countries. After the Cold War the U.S. searched the Soviet archives for evidence of plans to attack NATO, but all these turned up nothing. The Soviet Union never had the intention to attack Western Europe and all their posturing was merely to make us believe they were stronger than they actually were. Yes, they'd won the Second World War, but only at enormous human cost. For every German soldier killed at least 5 Soviet soldiers lost their lives.

kibwen 4y ago
> Putin clearly stated he has no such intentions If Putin told me the sky was blue, I'd go outside and check. To describe Putin's relationship with the truth as "tenuous" would be far more generous than he deserves.
- UltraViolence 4y ago
  For all his faults and crimes I do believe he's sincere on this. He merely wants us to keep out of "his" backyard. Read: former Soviet states are off-limits for NATO and EU membership. We've been provoking him by offering (and sometimes even bribing and prodding) former Soviet states to become NATO members. I'm no Putin fan, but I do believe he has a point here.
  - luckylion 4y ago
    But accepting that would just mean that e.g. Poland couldn't join the EU and would have to remain, even forced by the West to not make Putin sad, a Russian vassal state. Who can accept such a world order, where a tier 2 power holds everyone hostage and demands to be treated as an empire? Imagine if the British expected to still control all of the empire they once had and demanded the US, Russia and China stop India from going its own way.
    - UltraViolence 4y ago

lancelot-ru 4y ago

paganel 4y ago

> Watching Russian convoys sport the Soviet flag pretty much signals their intention: It was this flag [1], not any Soviet flag. Which, in this context, makes a lot of sense, as the current government in Ukraine tries to extricate itself as much as possible from them actually having been on the good side during WW2 (with the well-known exceptions), i.e. on Russia's side . I used to know a person closed to me who had fought on the wrong side, around the same parts where this war now takes place (Odessa, Crimea, all the way to the Don river), so I'm not commenting about this from half a world away. And no, it was not "obvious" that that was Russia's intention. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Victory_Banner_(Soviet_Union) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Victory_Banner_(Soviet_Union)

kibwen 4y ago
> the good side during WW2, i.e. on Russia's side (with the well-known exceptions) There are some pretty fucking big exceptions there, my friend. The USSR was perfectly content to cooperate with Nazi Germany for their own benefit until they got backstabbed.
- helij 4y ago
  You don't know history [0][1]. Stalin was absolutely not content to cooperate with Nazi Germany as Stalin offered 1M soldiers to be sent to border with Germany if France and Britain agreed on anti-Nazi alliance. They didn't even respond. Unfortunately this only came out in 2000' when classified documents came out and Molotov–Ribbentrop Pact is the only thing people remember. Time to update your knowledge. Of course British and French were wary of communist Soviet Union but Stalin did offer it to Allies first. That's a historical fact. Once they didn't respond he tried to prevent and postpone the war with Germany with a well known Molotov–Ribbentrop Pact because documents also show that Stalin was perfectly aware that Germans will attack no matter what. The above doesn't negate Stalin's imperialistic ambitions towards Poland. [0]https://www.wsj.com/articles/stalin-first-tried-to-resist-hitler-with-great-britain-11589838192 https://www.wsj.com/articles/stalin-first-tried-to-resist-hi... [1]https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/russia/3223834/Stalin-planned-to-send-a-million-troops-to-stop-Hitler-if-Britain-and-France-agreed-pact.html https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/russia/322...

lamontcg 4y ago

Well Putin can't manage to cross the Dnipro, so I don't think Poland needs to worry too much unless he starts to pop off nukes.