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Live in West Norway. 60 degrees north. Atrocious climate. 245 rainy days each year, and on average 8.5 feet (yes) of rainfall. Average time of direct sunlight p
by marvin 4y ago
Live in West Norway. 60 degrees north. Atrocious climate. 245 rainy days each year, and on average 8.5 feet (yes) of rainfall. Average time of direct sunlight per month November-February inclusive is 45 hours. Per month.
Starting in mid-October and ending early March, I make sure to stand in direct sunlight, with the light hitting my face, for at least 10 minutes on all the days when weather permits. This entails unscheduled breaks from work, as such periods might only last a few minutes. Often combined with a walk outside. (There will often be weeks when the sun is not visible at all).
In fact, I took such a break while writing this comment, as it's the only sunlight I'm likely to see today. It was attenuated by clouds, but was very pleasant during the ~4 minutes it lasted. Had to stand up from my office chair, as otherwise neighboring houses would occlude it. I swear I'm not making this up, or even overstating the regularity with which it happens. I consider myself prone to seasonal depression, but maybe it's just the climate.
On days when I don't get my dose of sunlight, I use a daylight lamp that I sit in front of for at least 20 minutes. Often as much as an hour.
This alleviates the worst winter depression. When I feel it coming on, I feel markedly more awake after getting some more light. Also make sure to take care of myself and listen to my needs, more so than usual. Enough sleep, enough relaxation, enough socialization, enough solidude. Have been doing this routine for about a decade, and it works well.
- hoten 4y agoDo you suspect you get a lot of psychological benefits from these habits, or something more than vitamin D supplements would provide? https://www.yalemedicine.org/news/vitamin-d-myths-debunked https://www.yalemedicine.org/news/vitamin-d-myths-debunked
- marvin 4y agoWell, separating placebo effects from real physiological effects and tracing the latter to the source isn't something I've put much thought into. This feels like it works, and that's good enough for me. But there might be something to what you're pointing at, yes. The seasonal depression itself feels pretty distinct. I've been "normal" depressed before, and this is more like a "turned down the dimmer switch on the consciousness" combined with the regular suspects like lower initiative, less joy from fun things, muted feelings and so on. And my subjective experience is it responds well to light and general self-care, to a greater degree than the "standard" variety does. But who knows!
- runnerup 4y agoI’m from Michigan and I developed the same coping mechanism. The benefits were profound, immediate, and lasted 12-48 hours. I found it to be significantly more beneficial than vitamin D supplements. I could replicate some degree of the benefit from a halogen lamp which supposedly has a coating on the glass that blocks the UV, so it’s probably not just Vitamin D. I’m sure vitamin D had some role in it though. But it needs to be an extremely bright light, and broad spectrum. LEDs / fluorescents couldn’t replicate the effects of “facing the sun”, only extremely high wattage halogens. It kind of worked for me on cloudy days depending on the degree of overcast occlusion but I would drop ANYTHING I was doing whenever the sun was shining enough to create crisp shadows. This became a ritual of my “personal religion”.
- rl3 4y agoCame here to link that source myself, so I'll just emphasize an important part: >Is it best to get your vitamin D from the sun? Definitely not! —David J. Leffell, MD, Yale Medicine dermatologist and chief of Dermatologic Surgery That whole section is worth reading. Light may be useful in a Circadian context, but from strictly a Vitamin D point of view you're better off with a diet rich in Vitamin D, or supplementation. Unsurprisingly wild-caught salmon and pasture-raised chicken eggs yield higher Vitamin D content, but supplementation also works. If you're vegan and deprived of sunlight, then supplementation might your only viable option.
- pmoriarty 4y ago"On days when I don't get my dose of sunlight, I use a daylight lamp that I sit in front of for at least 20 minutes. Often as much as an hour." Does the sunlight work better than the lamp, or do you just prefer it for some other reason?
- marvin 4y agoNo idea; the effect seems similar but I do prefer the real sunlight for some reason. The lamp has the advantage of being easier from a time-management perspective though; I don't actually have to stop working and so on to use it. But I don't think that attitude is conductive to point B; taking extra care with work-life balance, getting enough exercise and decompression and so on, so I have a low threshold of just dropping what I'm doing and taking a break in the daylight :)
- wafflemaker 4y agoSun, even on a cloudy day gives more light measured in lumens than even strongest lamps. Windows filter a lot, so being outside is important. You can use Lux Light Meter app to measure light intensity. Went outside to compare app results: Not too bright living room - 10lux Brightly lit kitchen - 400 lux. Outside (it's 15:45 in Norway, already getting dark), cloudy late autumn day/early evening - 50lux (which doesn't really prove my point :/) From memory: Sunny day, direct sunlight - 40k lux Cloudy summer day - 10k lux. A window filters 50-80% You see that even on a cloudy day you get as much as sitting 20cm from a SAD lamp. With 10k lux you need approximately 30min exposure before 9 o'clock to keep circadian rhythm from drifting.
- baxtr 4y agoI love your spirit and also like the insights you’ve shared! Yet, I’m afraid it’s not really an option for most us (including OP I guess) to move to West Norway.
- fwipsy 4y agoI don't think they were suggesting that OP move to West Norway, but saying that they did.
- baxtr 4y agoHmm. I got the impression they were… by saying ”Live in West Norway.”
- cinntaile 4y agoYou don't move to West Norway to combat long dark winter days, you move away from there. He's just explaining his routine that he needs to have to cope with the days in West Norway.
- radlad 4y ago"[I] live in West Norway." The rest of the paragraph explains exactly why living in West Norway would be an unhelpful move.
- marvin 4y agoI wouldn't recommend it for seasonal depression specifically, all else being equal! We've got easy access to some wicked and lonely nature, though, so it's not a big hassle to arrange an interesting lifestyle that makes up for it.
- wenc 4y agoI didn’t read it as an imperative but more like a pronoun dropped sentence.
- quickthrower2 4y agoHad to check: your typical rainfall is about the same as Sydneys rainfall this year with the year long La Nina system. That is nuts.