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I feed the crows cashews as I walk the dog, and I find their behavior fascinating. They "commute to work" each day. Crows all live in a community that they go

I feed the crows cashews as I walk the dog, and I find their behavior fascinating. They "commute to work" each day. Crows all live in a community that they go home to each night, and then each morning they all come back to their specific areas, usually in pairs. If you're in a place where you see crows every day, it's almost certainly the same pair of crows you’re seeing each day. Each pair has a strict territory. I don't know how it works in rural areas, but in my neighborhood the territories are demarcated by streets and cover one or two neighborhood blocks. They definitely recognize me and follow me for the peanuts. Usually they'll follow me from one block to the next, and another pair will come up and chase them off. They do seem to set aside their territorial fighting when there's a lot of food; a guy up the street from me throws ridiculous amounts of food onto his front lawn, like whole loaves of bread, to feed the birds (probably rats and coyotes too), and the crows all gather peacefully there every morning before heading back to their territories. I would love to know how they determine who gets what territory. I assume it's handed down; every year there's a month or so when the adolescents come out (they're a little bit ganglier and pester their parents for food all the time rather than foraging for it themselves) so I think they're there to learn the ropes. Are there crow dynasties that have owned certain city blocks for generations? How long do they last? Lots of interesting stuff to watch in the lives of crows.

geewee 4y ago
How did you manage to get started? The crows close to me are so skittish that if I try to throw a peanut at them they just fly off and never come back. I've only managed to not have that happen once.
- hairofadog 4y ago
  Hmm, if you’re literally throwing it at them, yeah, they don’t like that. You just kinda have to throw it where they can see it, then walk away, and they’ll come running over to scoop them up. Do that for a week or two and they’ll start looking for you. Also, cashews are their favorite (based on watching them pick the cashews out of trail mix and then come back for the other stuff later). They don’t let me get close to them, but sometimes they do fly up from behind and tap me on the back of the head to get my attention. Also, unlike the guy up the street, I only throw out a few at a time so they have to sort of follow me to get anything. My ultimate goal is to be able to point at someone and have the crows attack them like in Bioshock. It’ll be my thing for when society collapses. So far, however, I think our relationship is much more “let’s get some peanuts off this sucker” than “I’ll loyally follow this peanut person into battle”.
  - prox 4y ago
    I few times I made a pointing “forwards” gesture and then went ahead to where I pointed, although they probably knew my route already. But halfway there ;)
  - colechristensen 4y ago
    Crows really like Cheetos.
    - yellowapple 4y ago
      Which is why humanity is preserving Cheetos for future corvid civilizations to discover 10,000 years from now: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=33500525 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=33500525 We may wipe ourselves out through war and climate destruction, but the crows will survive and evolve, and CAWrchaeologists will discover our final gift to corvidkind and - hopefully - remember us fondly.
  - lioeters 4y ago
    > point at someone and have the crows attack I imagine this would be a conceptual leap for their intelligence, to understand the meaning of "pointing" and to make a connection to the target, what's being pointed at. But then again, I suppose hunting dogs have achieved it - they know what to attack - so it might be possible for smart crows too. Now that I think about it, there are cultures where people train hawks for practical hunting purposes. So taming crows may not be too far-fetched, though it might take a few generations..
- prox 4y ago
  Just place a few fav seeds where they can see it clearly, soon they will figure it out. Once they start recognizing you (which is very fast, few times tops) they will come. Don’t look or make sudden motions when they are near enough. They don’t like that. In time some might become more interested in you, depending on mood, and will come closer to you.
- carapace 4y ago
  Crows are companions-to-hunters (wolves and humans mostly.) They interpret your behavior through that "lens". If you set out food and then watch them that means (in crow) that you are a hunter, and a lousy one, and you're trying to hunt them. Toss out some food and "forget" it and they'll think you're such a successful hunter that you don't even need to every scrap. Someone worth knowing. In the old days, crows would go on the hunt with us and fly over hidden game in the bush dipping a wing in a certain way to let you know where it is, then you share the meat with them. They still remember even if most of us have forgotten. ;)
  - voidz 4y ago
    I love this. Can you earn their trust, as in, become pals with them? Or is this more of a human desire. It's probably mostly food based priorities to them.
    - nomel 4y ago
      I had a pair of crows that I was somewhat close to. I could get within a couple feet of them, before they would back away. It definitely seemed food based. But, observing how they interact with their (lifelong?) companion, I don’t think I’m able to perceive crow emotions.
    - Wistar 4y ago
      I have tried, and over a fairly long period of coaxing with popcorn, and they remain extremely wary. Only once, out of a group of 15-20 crows, did I earn the trust of a single crow enough that he, or she, would come within 10 feet of me to pickup kernels I had strewn on the ground. The rest stayed far away.
    - deleted 4y ago
      [deleted]
    - carapace 4y ago
      > Can you earn their trust, as in, become pals with them? It's a very human question. All living things are friends (except sometimes at mealtime) because we are all part of one singular organism. The separateness and individuality of multicellular organisms is a perceptual illusion. (This sound metaphysical, and perhaps it is, but it's very literal: all cells use the same chemical language, the same bio-molecular machinery of thought. Cf. Michael Levin's lab's work. Also "wood-wide web", etc. The way I sometimes put it is "We are Solaris". but that only makes sense if you've read the book or seen the movies...) Anyway, all animals already trust each other. When you can understand how that's true and share that trust then you can "talk" with animals. Like Dr. Doolittle or some fairy tale princess, they will come up and hang out with you. > It's probably mostly food based priorities to them. Yeah, but that's the same for everybody? Don't you and your friends spend a lot of time discussing food? Cooking and eating together? "Com-pan-ions" are literally those who eat bread together: "com" is community, etc. and "pan" is bread. Live long and prosper.
mannykannot 4y ago
Around where I live (southern New York), the crows seem to gather in groups of twenty or so as sunset approaches, and appear to be socializing (and making quite a lot of noise in the process.) There does not seem to be any fixed location where this happens, and it seems different from when they are mobbing a raptor, where the target of their ire can quickly be seen from the way the crows are directing their attention towards it. I can't say whether it occurs only at certain times of the year, and I have not paid any attention to where the birds go afterwards.
- hairofadog 4y ago
  It looks like there’s a pod in Poughkeepsie, but it’s an annual gathering place rather than nightly? https://www.scenichudson.org/viewfinder/poughkeepsies-massive-crow-roost/ https://www.scenichudson.org/viewfinder/poughkeepsies-massiv... Some other reporting about crows in your neck of the woods: https://www.ithaca.com/news/seeing-spots-nope-those-are-crows/article_c0a1b7f0-af79-11e3-89e0-0019bb2963f4.html https://www.ithaca.com/news/seeing-spots-nope-those-are-crow...
- whatevertrevor 4y ago
  I've observed a daily rollcall at evenings in our neighborhood. They don't necessarily gather together, but they sit atop tall trees and then caw to tally everyone up in a radius of a few blocks without fail at sunset.
onos 4y ago
Which is it peanuts or cashews?
- hairofadog 4y ago
  They prefer cashews but until the economy gets a little better it’s peanuts.
  - jacurtis 4y ago
    Do the crowd demonstrate a preference or behavior difference when fed the different nut varieties?
    - hairofadog 4y ago
      I haven’t noticed a change in their behavior. I think the real test would be the “trail mix” setup (drop various options on the ground and see which ones they go for first). I haven’t done it mostly out of laziness, but now I think I might just to see.

geewee 4y ago

How did you manage to get started? The crows close to me are so skittish that if I try to throw a peanut at them they just fly off and never come back. I've only managed to not have that happen once.

hairofadog 4y ago
Hmm, if you’re literally throwing it at them, yeah, they don’t like that. You just kinda have to throw it where they can see it, then walk away, and they’ll come running over to scoop them up. Do that for a week or two and they’ll start looking for you. Also, cashews are their favorite (based on watching them pick the cashews out of trail mix and then come back for the other stuff later). They don’t let me get close to them, but sometimes they do fly up from behind and tap me on the back of the head to get my attention. Also, unlike the guy up the street, I only throw out a few at a time so they have to sort of follow me to get anything. My ultimate goal is to be able to point at someone and have the crows attack them like in Bioshock. It’ll be my thing for when society collapses. So far, however, I think our relationship is much more “let’s get some peanuts off this sucker” than “I’ll loyally follow this peanut person into battle”.
- prox 4y ago
  I few times I made a pointing “forwards” gesture and then went ahead to where I pointed, although they probably knew my route already. But halfway there ;)
- colechristensen 4y ago
  Crows really like Cheetos.
  - yellowapple 4y ago
    Which is why humanity is preserving Cheetos for future corvid civilizations to discover 10,000 years from now: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=33500525 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=33500525 We may wipe ourselves out through war and climate destruction, but the crows will survive and evolve, and CAWrchaeologists will discover our final gift to corvidkind and - hopefully - remember us fondly.
- lioeters 4y ago
  > point at someone and have the crows attack I imagine this would be a conceptual leap for their intelligence, to understand the meaning of "pointing" and to make a connection to the target, what's being pointed at. But then again, I suppose hunting dogs have achieved it - they know what to attack - so it might be possible for smart crows too. Now that I think about it, there are cultures where people train hawks for practical hunting purposes. So taming crows may not be too far-fetched, though it might take a few generations..
prox 4y ago
Just place a few fav seeds where they can see it clearly, soon they will figure it out. Once they start recognizing you (which is very fast, few times tops) they will come. Don’t look or make sudden motions when they are near enough. They don’t like that. In time some might become more interested in you, depending on mood, and will come closer to you.
carapace 4y ago
Crows are companions-to-hunters (wolves and humans mostly.) They interpret your behavior through that "lens". If you set out food and then watch them that means (in crow) that you are a hunter, and a lousy one, and you're trying to hunt them. Toss out some food and "forget" it and they'll think you're such a successful hunter that you don't even need to every scrap. Someone worth knowing. In the old days, crows would go on the hunt with us and fly over hidden game in the bush dipping a wing in a certain way to let you know where it is, then you share the meat with them. They still remember even if most of us have forgotten. ;)
- voidz 4y ago
  I love this. Can you earn their trust, as in, become pals with them? Or is this more of a human desire. It's probably mostly food based priorities to them.
  - nomel 4y ago
    I had a pair of crows that I was somewhat close to. I could get within a couple feet of them, before they would back away. It definitely seemed food based. But, observing how they interact with their (lifelong?) companion, I don’t think I’m able to perceive crow emotions.
  - Wistar 4y ago
    I have tried, and over a fairly long period of coaxing with popcorn, and they remain extremely wary. Only once, out of a group of 15-20 crows, did I earn the trust of a single crow enough that he, or she, would come within 10 feet of me to pickup kernels I had strewn on the ground. The rest stayed far away.
  - deleted 4y ago
    [deleted]
  - carapace 4y ago
    > Can you earn their trust, as in, become pals with them? It's a very human question. All living things are friends (except sometimes at mealtime) because we are all part of one singular organism. The separateness and individuality of multicellular organisms is a perceptual illusion. (This sound metaphysical, and perhaps it is, but it's very literal: all cells use the same chemical language, the same bio-molecular machinery of thought. Cf. Michael Levin's lab's work. Also "wood-wide web", etc. The way I sometimes put it is "We are Solaris". but that only makes sense if you've read the book or seen the movies...) Anyway, all animals already trust each other. When you can understand how that's true and share that trust then you can "talk" with animals. Like Dr. Doolittle or some fairy tale princess, they will come up and hang out with you. > It's probably mostly food based priorities to them. Yeah, but that's the same for everybody? Don't you and your friends spend a lot of time discussing food? Cooking and eating together? "Com-pan-ions" are literally those who eat bread together: "com" is community, etc. and "pan" is bread. Live long and prosper.

mannykannot 4y ago

Around where I live (southern New York), the crows seem to gather in groups of twenty or so as sunset approaches, and appear to be socializing (and making quite a lot of noise in the process.) There does not seem to be any fixed location where this happens, and it seems different from when they are mobbing a raptor, where the target of their ire can quickly be seen from the way the crows are directing their attention towards it. I can't say whether it occurs only at certain times of the year, and I have not paid any attention to where the birds go afterwards.

hairofadog 4y ago
It looks like there’s a pod in Poughkeepsie, but it’s an annual gathering place rather than nightly? https://www.scenichudson.org/viewfinder/poughkeepsies-massive-crow-roost/ https://www.scenichudson.org/viewfinder/poughkeepsies-massiv... Some other reporting about crows in your neck of the woods: https://www.ithaca.com/news/seeing-spots-nope-those-are-crows/article_c0a1b7f0-af79-11e3-89e0-0019bb2963f4.html https://www.ithaca.com/news/seeing-spots-nope-those-are-crow...
whatevertrevor 4y ago
I've observed a daily rollcall at evenings in our neighborhood. They don't necessarily gather together, but they sit atop tall trees and then caw to tally everyone up in a radius of a few blocks without fail at sunset.

onos 4y ago

Which is it peanuts or cashews?

hairofadog 4y ago
They prefer cashews but until the economy gets a little better it’s peanuts.
- jacurtis 4y ago
  Do the crowd demonstrate a preference or behavior difference when fed the different nut varieties?
  - hairofadog 4y ago
    I haven’t noticed a change in their behavior. I think the real test would be the “trail mix” setup (drop various options on the ground and see which ones they go for first). I haven’t done it mostly out of laziness, but now I think I might just to see.