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Gluing yourself to a tram or the street in 2022 is having zero (positive) effect. The transition from fossil fuel to electrictiy and clean forms of electricity

Gluing yourself to a tram or the street in 2022 is having zero (positive) effect. The transition from fossil fuel to electrictiy and clean forms of electricity has been happening for a decade plus now - maybe the greenpeacer of the late 90's can legitimately claim credit. No policy maker is seeing these activists at work and changing their mind about anything. The offshore wind farm opening in 2023 is not a product of that activist gluing themselves to something, and the one planned for 10 years from now is not either. The train, towards clean electricity and near zero oil is in motion, has been for quite some time, and the only question is how fast it is travelling. I would love to see it move faster, and certainly anyone actually pulling the strings of investment are looking at a coventional power plant vs renewables and throwing their money at renewables faster than people can take it. It is only amongst the chattering masses and everyone having their voice heard on twitter that there is much debate.

cauch 4y ago
Hm, I'm not on the side of those annoying activists, but I think your assertions have no ground. Existence of "extremists" usually helps "moderates" make things change. Without the "extremists", the "moderates" ARE the "extremists" and will not be taken seriously. It reminds me of how without the Black Panther Party, some white moderates would have not accepted propositions from Martin Luther King. I think that wind farms and renewables would not be there if there was no pressure from extremists that helped deciders realize that wind farms and renewables are not just a whim from few ecologists.
- shapefrog 4y ago
  > the greenpeacer of the late 90's can legitimately claim credit They were swiming against the tide - today they are swiming with a pretty rapidly moving current. > wind farms and renewables would not be there if there was no pressure from extremists Wind farms and renewables that exist today because someone in June 2022 glued their hand to a road. They are the product of research and development and planning under corporations and governments 3/4/5 leaders ago. In the context of the UK - 2014 for consent to build Hornsea which started delivering power in 2020. With each successful phase they keep asking to build more, it is the success of the project that had them proposing part 2 and now in 2022 part 3. The person glued to the pavement can claim Hornsea 3 is their doing but personally I dont think they are moving the needle at all. If you could build a wind farm, and sell off 50% of the interest in the project for what it cost to build - you would be planning the next one as well. https://www.offshorewind.biz/2022/03/28/orsted-divesting-half-of-hornsea-two-for-eur-3-6-billion/ https://www.offshorewind.biz/2022/03/28/orsted-divesting-hal... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hornsea_Wind_Farm https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hornsea_Wind_Farm
  - cauch 4y ago
    Nobody is pretending that today's wind farms are the result of someone gluing their hand to a road in June 2022 (the fact that you are framing the discussion as if it is the case is not a good start). But it is incorrect to say that it's obvious wind farms would have happened without people doing similar things in their time. Maybe you are too young, but people doing similar things as people gluing their hands today existed way before 2014. You take Hornsea, it is a good example: projects from industry in UK existed for a long time, but were unlocked only due to European Union promotion and subsidies for renewable energy, which itself would not have existed without the need for Germany to boost renewable because they decided to go out of nuclear, because of the ecologist protests in 1980-1990. Hornsea is the result of the 2010 European Union push for 20% renewable, and would not have existed (at least not as early) otherwise, because EU funding was, obviously, a really good incentive. Before that, there were wind power industry pushing for projects in UK (such wind power industry groups exists since 1970), but they were not very often taken on board by the UK government. Also, Hornsea has deemed economically profitable because it used efficient technology created due to the push for renewable that was in general a political move due to pressure of ecologist protests.

cauch 4y ago

Hm, I'm not on the side of those annoying activists, but I think your assertions have no ground. Existence of "extremists" usually helps "moderates" make things change. Without the "extremists", the "moderates" ARE the "extremists" and will not be taken seriously. It reminds me of how without the Black Panther Party, some white moderates would have not accepted propositions from Martin Luther King. I think that wind farms and renewables would not be there if there was no pressure from extremists that helped deciders realize that wind farms and renewables are not just a whim from few ecologists.

shapefrog 4y ago
> the greenpeacer of the late 90's can legitimately claim credit They were swiming against the tide - today they are swiming with a pretty rapidly moving current. > wind farms and renewables would not be there if there was no pressure from extremists Wind farms and renewables that exist today because someone in June 2022 glued their hand to a road. They are the product of research and development and planning under corporations and governments 3/4/5 leaders ago. In the context of the UK - 2014 for consent to build Hornsea which started delivering power in 2020. With each successful phase they keep asking to build more, it is the success of the project that had them proposing part 2 and now in 2022 part 3. The person glued to the pavement can claim Hornsea 3 is their doing but personally I dont think they are moving the needle at all. If you could build a wind farm, and sell off 50% of the interest in the project for what it cost to build - you would be planning the next one as well. https://www.offshorewind.biz/2022/03/28/orsted-divesting-half-of-hornsea-two-for-eur-3-6-billion/ https://www.offshorewind.biz/2022/03/28/orsted-divesting-hal... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hornsea_Wind_Farm https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hornsea_Wind_Farm
- cauch 4y ago
  Nobody is pretending that today's wind farms are the result of someone gluing their hand to a road in June 2022 (the fact that you are framing the discussion as if it is the case is not a good start). But it is incorrect to say that it's obvious wind farms would have happened without people doing similar things in their time. Maybe you are too young, but people doing similar things as people gluing their hands today existed way before 2014. You take Hornsea, it is a good example: projects from industry in UK existed for a long time, but were unlocked only due to European Union promotion and subsidies for renewable energy, which itself would not have existed without the need for Germany to boost renewable because they decided to go out of nuclear, because of the ecologist protests in 1980-1990. Hornsea is the result of the 2010 European Union push for 20% renewable, and would not have existed (at least not as early) otherwise, because EU funding was, obviously, a really good incentive. Before that, there were wind power industry pushing for projects in UK (such wind power industry groups exists since 1970), but they were not very often taken on board by the UK government. Also, Hornsea has deemed economically profitable because it used efficient technology created due to the push for renewable that was in general a political move due to pressure of ecologist protests.