4 ms·

As a fan of roguelikes (not saying DF is a roguelike)/turn-based/grid-based games, I wish more of these "classical" games would take a look at the HUGE improvem

As a fan of roguelikes (not saying DF is a roguelike)/turn-based/grid-based games, I wish more of these "classical" games would take a look at the HUGE improvements to animation/motion that Jupiter Hell implemented. Seeing a game be released in 2022 and the character still mechanically slides from one grid cell to the next is painful. Not saying a hate it or wouldn't play a game that still does it, but seems to be holding the related genres back.

causi 4y ago
Wow, I had no idea it was still going to be like that in the final Steam version. It looks more like an amateur overlay someone could have cranked out in a month than a years-long project. Frankly that jank makes me prefer the original graphics. At least you expect single glyphs to blink around.
- red_trumpet 4y ago
  If you take a look at their blog[1], you might realize that the Steam release is about more than slapping on a texture pack. AFAICT they overhauled most of the UI. [1] https://bay12games.com/dwarves/ https://bay12games.com/dwarves/
- alpaca128 4y ago
  It was communicated from the start what the Steam version would look like. But also they significantly sped up world generation and built a graphical UI, among other things. That alone is a good reason for me to prefer "that jank". > It looks more like an amateur overlay someone could have cranked out in a month than a years-long project We both know that's not remotely true. They're not even done drawing all the graphics yet and that's not exactly because of laziness. And on the technical side this is a game built over 20 years without animated graphics in mind.
  - causality0 4y ago
    Is having characters face the direction they're moving really that big of an ask? I'm no master developer but comparing two X coordinates and picking a left-facing or right-facing sprite seems like the kind of thing computers are good at.
    - pixl97 4y ago
      >Is having characters face the direction they're moving really that big of an ask? For one character, probably not, but if you have 200 dwarfs and a large goblin raid is flooding your gates with about as many units you now have another coupling between the logic and UI that must be tracked bringing your fortress closer to FPS death at earlier stages.
    - alpaca128 4y ago
      > Is having characters face the direction they're moving really that big of an ask? DF has over ten intelligent species, countless animals and other creatures that include oddities like weresloths. Should all of those be drawn in different orientations? There is a lot of variety you could add graphically based on, say, a dwarves' current activity, mental state and so on but you have to draw the line somewhere if the game is supposed to actually release. They did make some other improvements like a less cryptic graphical representation of terrain. From what I've seen a lot of the development work for the Steam release was about reducing the technical debt that accumulated over the years and now just had to be paid in order to integrate new features and improvements.
      - causality0 4y ago
        Then why draw them facing left instead of facing out like the smiley face? Should all of those be drawn in different orientations? Literally all you need is a single mirroring. Left and right. That's enough so your characters don't spend half their time moonwalking. It looks ridiculous.
        dilznoofus 4y ago
        Because (1) they originally used the '' character. In ASCII, the cat is 'c'. Does it bother you that it doesn't turn around? Does it bother you that they aren't facing up/north? Why not? I can't say I've ever heard anyone complain about 'sliding' or 'moonwalking' before. Mostly because they're just disappearing from one coordinate and appearing in the neighbouring one.
Kiro 4y ago
I don't see any sliding here, only hopping from one tile to another without anything in-between. Anyway, that's just your opinion. I greatly prefer this to Jupiter Hell and I don't even understand how you can compare the two. Jupiter Hell looks like a generic top-down isometric 3D game.
Y_Y 4y ago
Years ago I saw someone describe Dwarf Fortress as "more like reading a book than watching a movie". That is to say that you're given the information in a minimal, symbolic way and then the heavy lifting in creating the mental image is done by your imagination. Fwiw, I did try using various graphical tilesets over the years but went back to the old-school glyphs (or rather the unicode setup that lets you run the game in a normal terminal).
- red_trumpet 4y ago
  Personally, I quite like "CLA's ASCII-like Graphics Set", which tries to strike a middle ground. In particular, square tiles are non-negotiable for me. [1] https://dwarffortresswiki.org/index.php/DF2014:Graphics_set_repository#CLA.27s_ASCII-like_Graphics_Set https://dwarffortresswiki.org/index.php/DF2014:Graphics_set_...
Sharlin 4y ago
Sliding animation may or may not happen in a later version. Currently the units just teleport from cell to cell. Expecting real walking etc animations in an indie game that features hundreds of different unit sprites – with very different body plans – is just silly. Especially given that the whole Steam version only exists due to the non-first-world healthcare system of the US that forced the brothers to seek an additional source of income besides donations. Honestly, the Steam version is a charity project first and foremost. Otherwise graphics and UI work would be very low on Bay 12’s priority.

causi 4y ago

Wow, I had no idea it was still going to be like that in the final Steam version. It looks more like an amateur overlay someone could have cranked out in a month than a years-long project. Frankly that jank makes me prefer the original graphics. At least you expect single glyphs to blink around.

red_trumpet 4y ago
If you take a look at their blog[1], you might realize that the Steam release is about more than slapping on a texture pack. AFAICT they overhauled most of the UI. [1] https://bay12games.com/dwarves/ https://bay12games.com/dwarves/
alpaca128 4y ago
It was communicated from the start what the Steam version would look like. But also they significantly sped up world generation and built a graphical UI, among other things. That alone is a good reason for me to prefer "that jank". > It looks more like an amateur overlay someone could have cranked out in a month than a years-long project We both know that's not remotely true. They're not even done drawing all the graphics yet and that's not exactly because of laziness. And on the technical side this is a game built over 20 years without animated graphics in mind.
- causality0 4y ago
  Is having characters face the direction they're moving really that big of an ask? I'm no master developer but comparing two X coordinates and picking a left-facing or right-facing sprite seems like the kind of thing computers are good at.
  - pixl97 4y ago
    >Is having characters face the direction they're moving really that big of an ask? For one character, probably not, but if you have 200 dwarfs and a large goblin raid is flooding your gates with about as many units you now have another coupling between the logic and UI that must be tracked bringing your fortress closer to FPS death at earlier stages.
  - alpaca128 4y ago
    > Is having characters face the direction they're moving really that big of an ask? DF has over ten intelligent species, countless animals and other creatures that include oddities like weresloths. Should all of those be drawn in different orientations? There is a lot of variety you could add graphically based on, say, a dwarves' current activity, mental state and so on but you have to draw the line somewhere if the game is supposed to actually release. They did make some other improvements like a less cryptic graphical representation of terrain. From what I've seen a lot of the development work for the Steam release was about reducing the technical debt that accumulated over the years and now just had to be paid in order to integrate new features and improvements.
    - causality0 4y ago
      Then why draw them facing left instead of facing out like the smiley face? Should all of those be drawn in different orientations? Literally all you need is a single mirroring. Left and right. That's enough so your characters don't spend half their time moonwalking. It looks ridiculous.
      - dilznoofus 4y ago
        Because (1) they originally used the '' character. In ASCII, the cat is 'c'. Does it bother you that it doesn't turn around? Does it bother you that they aren't facing up/north? Why not? I can't say I've ever heard anyone complain about 'sliding' or 'moonwalking' before. Mostly because they're just disappearing from one coordinate and appearing in the neighbouring one.

Kiro 4y ago

I don't see any sliding here, only hopping from one tile to another without anything in-between. Anyway, that's just your opinion. I greatly prefer this to Jupiter Hell and I don't even understand how you can compare the two. Jupiter Hell looks like a generic top-down isometric 3D game.

Y_Y 4y ago

Years ago I saw someone describe Dwarf Fortress as "more like reading a book than watching a movie". That is to say that you're given the information in a minimal, symbolic way and then the heavy lifting in creating the mental image is done by your imagination. Fwiw, I did try using various graphical tilesets over the years but went back to the old-school glyphs (or rather the unicode setup that lets you run the game in a normal terminal).

red_trumpet 4y ago
Personally, I quite like "CLA's ASCII-like Graphics Set", which tries to strike a middle ground. In particular, square tiles are non-negotiable for me. [1] https://dwarffortresswiki.org/index.php/DF2014:Graphics_set_repository#CLA.27s_ASCII-like_Graphics_Set https://dwarffortresswiki.org/index.php/DF2014:Graphics_set_...

Sharlin 4y ago

Sliding animation may or may not happen in a later version. Currently the units just teleport from cell to cell. Expecting real walking etc animations in an indie game that features hundreds of different unit sprites – with very different body plans – is just silly. Especially given that the whole Steam version only exists due to the non-first-world healthcare system of the US that forced the brothers to seek an additional source of income besides donations. Honestly, the Steam version is a charity project first and foremost. Otherwise graphics and UI work would be very low on Bay 12’s priority.