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This reminds me of a dialogue from Gregory Bateson's Steps Toward an Ecology of Mind: Daughter: Daddy, why do things get in a muddle? Father: What do you mean?
by satisfice 4y ago
This reminds me of a dialogue from Gregory Bateson's Steps Toward an Ecology of Mind:
Daughter: Daddy, why do things get in a muddle?
Father: What do you mean? Things? Muddle?
D: Well, people spend a lot of time tidying things, but they never seem to spend time muddling them. Things just seem to get in a muddle by themselves. And then people have to tidy them up again.
F: But do your things get in a muddle if you don’t touch them?
D: No—not if nobody touches them. But if you touch them—or if anybody touches them—they get in a muddle and it’s a worse muddle if it isn’t me.
F: Yes—that’s why I try to keep you from touching the things on my desk. Because my things get in a worse muddle if they are touched by somebody who isn’t me.
D: But do people always muddle other people’s things? Why do they, Daddy?
F: Now, wait a minute. It’s not so simple. First of all, what do you mean by a muddle?
D: I mean—so I can’t find things, and so it looks all muddled up. The way it is when nothing is straight
F: Well, but are you sure you mean the same thing by muddle that anybody else would mean?
D: But, Daddy, I’m sure I do—because I’m not a very tidy person and if I say things are in a muddle, then I’m sure everybody else would agree with me.
F: All right—but do you think you mean the same thing by “tidy” that. other people would? If your mummy makes your things tidy, do you know where to find them?
D: Hmm… sometimes—because, you see, I know where she puts things when she tidies up
F: Yes, I try to keep her away from tidying my desk, too. I’m sure that she and I don’t mean the same thing by “tidy.”
D: Daddy, do you and I mean the same thing by “tidy?”
F: I doubt it, my dear—I doubt it.
- BlueTemplar 4y agoYep, and that's why the whole concept of entropy and especially negentropy is superfluous, it's just lack of information ! http://www.av8n.com/physics/thermo/entropy.html#sec-s-not-knowing http://www.av8n.com/physics/thermo/entropy.html#sec-s-not-kn... (However, it is perhaps useful to separate them into two concepts when teaching the 19th century thermodynamics, since it would be hard to avoid questions about the subjectivity of information ?)
- IIAOPSW 4y agoI agree profoundly with everything except "the concept is superfluous". Yes its just a lack of information, or as I say it "entropy is the name of the bits you don't have." That's a profoundly useful thing. You can talk about the password entropy (the bits in the search space for the password you don't have), the mutual entropy (how many bits does Alice have that Bob is missing) etc.
- BlueTemplar 4y agoYes, I was perhaps too radical here. But the usefulness is akin to "syntactic sugar", and in some cases not realizing that they are fundamentally the same concept can be harmful in itself...
- onetokeoverthe 4y ago