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> Do you think there's any realistic alternative to Twitter as the world's "town square"? The concept of a "global town square" is entirely at odds with everyt

by Syonyk 4y ago

> Do you think there's any realistic alternative to Twitter as the world's "town square"? The concept of a "global town square" is entirely at odds with everything we know about how humans work, and I don't believe any sort of algorithm or content moderation or anything of the sort can make such an incredibly infeasible concept workable. The alternative to Twitter should be building local community. Start having fire pit nights. Welcome (limited) alcohol and some pipes or cigars, and simply start talking to people, face to face, again - and then keep doing it on a weekly basis or so. Expand as needed, and when it gets too big, start another firepit. We need to stop intermediating all human interactions through tech companies that are simply mining this data to then manipulate us as we're most susceptible to (which is what advertising is, though plenty of other things also piggyback on the data to try to manipulate us). And turn off cell phones around the fire pit. They're actively harmful in every possible way.

zimpenfish 4y ago
> Start having fire pit nights. Welcome (limited) alcohol and some pipes or cigars, and simply start talking to people, face to face, again I know zero (0) people within a 5 mile radius[1]. And if you started a fire pit around here (local council estate)[2], alcohol or no, I can guarantee the police would need to be involved sooner rather than later. [1] Exceptions: flat mate and one person who stays in London ~2 nights a week [2] Also good luck trying to get a permit for that kind of thing.
- tmaly 4y ago
  If you need a permit for that, you are living in the wrong place under the wrong leadership.
- yellowapple 4y ago
  > I know zero (0) people within a 5 mile radius[1]. That's exactly the problem to be solved by the suggestion above. > [2] Also good luck trying to get a permit for that kind of thing. It's a sad state of affairs when "oi bruv you go' a loicense for tha' firepi'?" is an actual concern.
  - zimpenfish 4y ago
    > It's a sad state of affairs when "oi bruv you go' a loicense for tha' firepi'?" is an actual concern. In the absence of someone hosting it in their garden - and within 200yds radius of here, there's maybe 20 gardens, none big enough for a safe fire pit - it would need to be in the community space which is controlled. > That's exactly the problem to be solved by the suggestion above. Have you considered that I perhaps don't want to know any of the people within a 5 mile radius since I already have a community of people I talk to?
    - yellowapple 4y ago
      > Have you considered that I perhaps don't want to know any of the people within a 5 mile radius since I already have a community of people I talk to? Have you considered that maybe it's in your best interests to at least be acquainted with people in your local community? Unless you're in rural America or something (hell, even then), that's a lot of people you seem to have written off rather prematurely. Like, I can't tell you how to live your life, but if you're truly that detached from your local surroundings then that seems like a problem in and of itself - not just from the abstract perspective of mental well-being, mind you, but also the tangible/pragmatic perspective of being able to negotiate for necessary (let alone desired) goods and services within society. Put simply: having friends close by is invaluable. I guess if you're rich enough you can pay strangers to provide everything you need, but having friends to call upon when you need help with something is a lot cheaper :) Besides, it's possible (if not highly probable) that there are people within a 5 mile radius of you who are part of your existing remote community. Wouldn't it be useful to know who those people are and at least have the ability to collaborate with them in person if need be?
      - zimpenfish 4y ago
        > Have you considered that maybe it's in your best interests to at least be acquainted with people in your local community? Yes. But in the last 4 years, I've heard the local community scream at their children, heard the local alcoholics shouting abuse at people walking past, seen the local shop attacked by a gang of kids 3 times, seen countless fireworks let off in the square and also aimed at people, seen the rubbish left behind after the community has used the square and park, and been kept up more nights than I can count by the noise. I'm OK keeping my distance, thanks. > also the tangible/pragmatic perspective of being able to negotiate for necessary (let alone desired) goods and services We got a plumber recommended by and from the community to replace a shower. That kind of thing? It took a couple of years and a few hundred pounds to get a stranger to fix what he messed up. > Wouldn't it be useful to know who those people are I'm reasonably sure I do know who those people are, yes. Perfectly happy to collaborate with them, if required, remotely. What all these suggestions seem to be missing is that some people (and I don't think it's a tiny percentage, either) do not have the burning desire to mingle with people at fire pits, roof beers, park beers, etc. and that remote communities, enabled by things like Usenet, IRC, Twitter, Livejournal, what have you, are how they prefer to interact.
- cbeach 4y ago
  Life got a lot better for me when I finally moved out of London. I was fed up of living in a place where there was no cultural cohesion, where people constantly came and left, where ghettos naturally formed because melting pots don’t work in practice. I now live in a lovely town in Kent where I know and love my neighbours, where the streets are safe and clean. The air is clean. The roads aren’t all 20mph limited (FFS, Lewisham!) and people are generally happier, more polite and more settled. Some people will wince at how “white and middle class” the area is. But I have no chips on my shoulder about race or class, so this doesn’t bother me in the slightest. Leave London. There are much nicer places to be in the U.K., whatever age you are.
mattmanser 4y ago
I find it funny you chose 'pipes or cigars'. Not sure what country you're from, but now they've been banned from public places in the UK, you'd be considered a weirdo for suggesting that. Pipes and cigars are loathed. People hate smokers now, they're considered pariahs now.
- Syonyk 4y ago
  Good. If you're attempting to build a slightly counter-cultural, offline tightly knit social group, adding a cigar seems reasonable enough to me. And around an active firepit, the additional smoke isn't a big thing. Practically, the reason I suggest a bit of alcohol and some cigars/pipes is to have "something to do with your hands," and something to do if you don't want to be part of the conversation at the moment. Since these events are ideally cell phone free, if a chunk of the conversation isn't interesting, or isn't something you care to participate in at the time for whatever reason, being able to sit back and focus on the pipe or cigar for a bit is a nice option. I've certainly had moments when someone is expressing a point I disagree with, where the best option is to simply let them talk and occasionally ask clarifying questions - sitting back, sipping on some whiskey, and working on a cigar makes it far easier to let them continue without feeling the need to dive into why I think they're somewhat insane, and that's half the point here - I may not agree with them, but I would like to understand where they're coming from. At this point, though, I'd view the actively countercultural aspects of a pipe/cigar as a benefit to them in your situation. But, also, seeing the UK-centric parts of the discussion here, I'm so glad I don't live over there. It sounds worse than I'd expected - 1984 was not intended to be a government handbook.
pvinis 4y ago
I love how people went for the literal fire pit and pipes and started complaining about licenses and unusual items. I'll rephrase a bit and hope the parent here agrees with me. That's not the point. If a fire pit and pipes are not your thing or not allowed by police or space, just do a beer gathering at your roof. A tea gathering at your place. Have a few beers on the park and offer them to people. Whatever you're comfortable (or maybe slightly uncomfortable) with, with the goal of finding a small group of people that are local. They don't need to be your best friends. But speaking from experience, knowing local people helps. Especially if you're not from that place. Hopefully the point is the same and this makes it easier for others to not get defensive, but open-minded and willing to try.

by Syonyk 4y ago

zimpenfish 4y ago

> Start having fire pit nights. Welcome (limited) alcohol and some pipes or cigars, and simply start talking to people, face to face, again I know zero (0) people within a 5 mile radius[1]. And if you started a fire pit around here (local council estate)[2], alcohol or no, I can guarantee the police would need to be involved sooner rather than later. [1] Exceptions: flat mate and one person who stays in London ~2 nights a week [2] Also good luck trying to get a permit for that kind of thing.

tmaly 4y ago
If you need a permit for that, you are living in the wrong place under the wrong leadership.
yellowapple 4y ago
> I know zero (0) people within a 5 mile radius[1]. That's exactly the problem to be solved by the suggestion above. > [2] Also good luck trying to get a permit for that kind of thing. It's a sad state of affairs when "oi bruv you go' a loicense for tha' firepi'?" is an actual concern.
- zimpenfish 4y ago
  > It's a sad state of affairs when "oi bruv you go' a loicense for tha' firepi'?" is an actual concern. In the absence of someone hosting it in their garden - and within 200yds radius of here, there's maybe 20 gardens, none big enough for a safe fire pit - it would need to be in the community space which is controlled. > That's exactly the problem to be solved by the suggestion above. Have you considered that I perhaps don't want to know any of the people within a 5 mile radius since I already have a community of people I talk to?
  - yellowapple 4y ago
    > Have you considered that I perhaps don't want to know any of the people within a 5 mile radius since I already have a community of people I talk to? Have you considered that maybe it's in your best interests to at least be acquainted with people in your local community? Unless you're in rural America or something (hell, even then), that's a lot of people you seem to have written off rather prematurely. Like, I can't tell you how to live your life, but if you're truly that detached from your local surroundings then that seems like a problem in and of itself - not just from the abstract perspective of mental well-being, mind you, but also the tangible/pragmatic perspective of being able to negotiate for necessary (let alone desired) goods and services within society. Put simply: having friends close by is invaluable. I guess if you're rich enough you can pay strangers to provide everything you need, but having friends to call upon when you need help with something is a lot cheaper :) Besides, it's possible (if not highly probable) that there are people within a 5 mile radius of you who are part of your existing remote community. Wouldn't it be useful to know who those people are and at least have the ability to collaborate with them in person if need be?
    - zimpenfish 4y ago
      > Have you considered that maybe it's in your best interests to at least be acquainted with people in your local community? Yes. But in the last 4 years, I've heard the local community scream at their children, heard the local alcoholics shouting abuse at people walking past, seen the local shop attacked by a gang of kids 3 times, seen countless fireworks let off in the square and also aimed at people, seen the rubbish left behind after the community has used the square and park, and been kept up more nights than I can count by the noise. I'm OK keeping my distance, thanks. > also the tangible/pragmatic perspective of being able to negotiate for necessary (let alone desired) goods and services We got a plumber recommended by and from the community to replace a shower. That kind of thing? It took a couple of years and a few hundred pounds to get a stranger to fix what he messed up. > Wouldn't it be useful to know who those people are I'm reasonably sure I do know who those people are, yes. Perfectly happy to collaborate with them, if required, remotely. What all these suggestions seem to be missing is that some people (and I don't think it's a tiny percentage, either) do not have the burning desire to mingle with people at fire pits, roof beers, park beers, etc. and that remote communities, enabled by things like Usenet, IRC, Twitter, Livejournal, what have you, are how they prefer to interact.
cbeach 4y ago
Life got a lot better for me when I finally moved out of London. I was fed up of living in a place where there was no cultural cohesion, where people constantly came and left, where ghettos naturally formed because melting pots don’t work in practice. I now live in a lovely town in Kent where I know and love my neighbours, where the streets are safe and clean. The air is clean. The roads aren’t all 20mph limited (FFS, Lewisham!) and people are generally happier, more polite and more settled. Some people will wince at how “white and middle class” the area is. But I have no chips on my shoulder about race or class, so this doesn’t bother me in the slightest. Leave London. There are much nicer places to be in the U.K., whatever age you are.

mattmanser 4y ago

I find it funny you chose 'pipes or cigars'. Not sure what country you're from, but now they've been banned from public places in the UK, you'd be considered a weirdo for suggesting that. Pipes and cigars are loathed. People hate smokers now, they're considered pariahs now.

Syonyk 4y ago
Good. If you're attempting to build a slightly counter-cultural, offline tightly knit social group, adding a cigar seems reasonable enough to me. And around an active firepit, the additional smoke isn't a big thing. Practically, the reason I suggest a bit of alcohol and some cigars/pipes is to have "something to do with your hands," and something to do if you don't want to be part of the conversation at the moment. Since these events are ideally cell phone free, if a chunk of the conversation isn't interesting, or isn't something you care to participate in at the time for whatever reason, being able to sit back and focus on the pipe or cigar for a bit is a nice option. I've certainly had moments when someone is expressing a point I disagree with, where the best option is to simply let them talk and occasionally ask clarifying questions - sitting back, sipping on some whiskey, and working on a cigar makes it far easier to let them continue without feeling the need to dive into why I think they're somewhat insane, and that's half the point here - I may not agree with them, but I would like to understand where they're coming from. At this point, though, I'd view the actively countercultural aspects of a pipe/cigar as a benefit to them in your situation. But, also, seeing the UK-centric parts of the discussion here, I'm so glad I don't live over there. It sounds worse than I'd expected - 1984 was not intended to be a government handbook.

pvinis 4y ago

I love how people went for the literal fire pit and pipes and started complaining about licenses and unusual items. I'll rephrase a bit and hope the parent here agrees with me. That's not the point. If a fire pit and pipes are not your thing or not allowed by police or space, just do a beer gathering at your roof. A tea gathering at your place. Have a few beers on the park and offer them to people. Whatever you're comfortable (or maybe slightly uncomfortable) with, with the goal of finding a small group of people that are local. They don't need to be your best friends. But speaking from experience, knowing local people helps. Especially if you're not from that place. Hopefully the point is the same and this makes it easier for others to not get defensive, but open-minded and willing to try.