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The phrase "keeps honest people honest" is oft said but I think it isn't quite true to the real mechanism at play, which is a system of societal incentive struc

The phrase "keeps honest people honest" is oft said but I think it isn't quite true to the real mechanism at play, which is a system of societal incentive structures. How about this: "locks only keep people out long enough to notice them trying to get in." The relevant factor then is the ratio of picking difficulty to situational difficulty. You could have the worst lock in existence, but if you're using it to chain your bike to the rack next to the police station in the worlds busiest street corner, no one will ever attempt to pick it because even though they could, there's a near 100% chance of getting caught. Conversely, you can put the best lock ever constructed on a door in some secluded alleyway no one ever checks up on and it won't matter because there's no upper limit on what a thief can do without arousing suspicion, so they will simply use a blow torch. There are neither honest people nor dishonest people, just rational incentives. The real locking mechanism is the societal system of property rights which will take you to jail if caught trying to subvert the mechanical system of property rights.

csomar 4y ago
That is completely wrong. Society is able to function (or not) based on agreed upon behavior. The police is mostly useless if someone broke into your home and stole your keyboard. Most people, who needs keyboards, will not break into their neighbor's home but instead will buy one from a store. Most suburban homes are actually unlocked. If the front door is locked, there is a high chance you can get in from the backyard or from a window. It's easier than you think to break into a home. Most of your neighbors are working in the day, or even if they are not, they are not actively checking your home. It takes less than 2 minutes to break in. You can also bring a van and two uniformed men and take all the possessions there is. People will think you are moving out; and not being actually robbed. When you have a higher criminal population, life become hell and no amount of policing or security will help. (ie: Some countries in South America and Africa). > keeps honest people honest More like keep curious people out. Most people will not enter your house even if the door is left open.
- IIAOPSW 4y ago
  You say I'm completely wrong but then go on to make exactly my same point. Sure theft is possible and yes, a lot of the time the lock is merely a signifier that "taking this breaks the rules" rather than a substantial physical obstacle to breaking the rules. Most of the time people do follow the rules. But, if the value is simply as a signifier and the rules of society are just agreement, can I replace all the locks with signs that say "please don't take this" and replace the police with just expecting people to be kind all the time? Of course not. The agreement of society is meaningless if nothing actually enforces any of rules. Enforcement may not be perfect, you indeed often can get away with crime, but for most people the expected payoff from stealing their neighbors keyboard is worse than the expected payoff of just getting a keyboard the "right" way from the store. The cost to stealing the keyboard depends on the time spent in jail if caught, times the probability of being caught. The probability of being caught goes up the longer I have to fiddle with a lock. The lock doesn't protect the keyboard per se, it merely makes the expected payoff of stealing not worth it to most people. Even if the door is left open, most people aren't entering your house for the same reason. If you're gainfully employed, the price of going to jail is high enough that you aren't going to start breaking into places even if you know for a fact the door is left open 90% or more of the time. The expected payoff of stealing from your neighbors isn't worth it.
6LLvveMx2koXfwn 4y ago
I am an honest person. I would not steal an unlocked bike with zero chance of getting caught. Does that make me irrational in your world?
heynowheynow 4y ago
Haha. That's a low bar. I want "frustrating and tormenting crooks to no end."

csomar 4y ago

That is completely wrong. Society is able to function (or not) based on agreed upon behavior. The police is mostly useless if someone broke into your home and stole your keyboard. Most people, who needs keyboards, will not break into their neighbor's home but instead will buy one from a store. Most suburban homes are actually unlocked. If the front door is locked, there is a high chance you can get in from the backyard or from a window. It's easier than you think to break into a home. Most of your neighbors are working in the day, or even if they are not, they are not actively checking your home. It takes less than 2 minutes to break in. You can also bring a van and two uniformed men and take all the possessions there is. People will think you are moving out; and not being actually robbed. When you have a higher criminal population, life become hell and no amount of policing or security will help. (ie: Some countries in South America and Africa). > keeps honest people honest More like keep curious people out. Most people will not enter your house even if the door is left open.

IIAOPSW 4y ago
You say I'm completely wrong but then go on to make exactly my same point. Sure theft is possible and yes, a lot of the time the lock is merely a signifier that "taking this breaks the rules" rather than a substantial physical obstacle to breaking the rules. Most of the time people do follow the rules. But, if the value is simply as a signifier and the rules of society are just agreement, can I replace all the locks with signs that say "please don't take this" and replace the police with just expecting people to be kind all the time? Of course not. The agreement of society is meaningless if nothing actually enforces any of rules. Enforcement may not be perfect, you indeed often can get away with crime, but for most people the expected payoff from stealing their neighbors keyboard is worse than the expected payoff of just getting a keyboard the "right" way from the store. The cost to stealing the keyboard depends on the time spent in jail if caught, times the probability of being caught. The probability of being caught goes up the longer I have to fiddle with a lock. The lock doesn't protect the keyboard per se, it merely makes the expected payoff of stealing not worth it to most people. Even if the door is left open, most people aren't entering your house for the same reason. If you're gainfully employed, the price of going to jail is high enough that you aren't going to start breaking into places even if you know for a fact the door is left open 90% or more of the time. The expected payoff of stealing from your neighbors isn't worth it.

6LLvveMx2koXfwn 4y ago

I am an honest person. I would not steal an unlocked bike with zero chance of getting caught. Does that make me irrational in your world?

heynowheynow 4y ago

Haha. That's a low bar. I want "frustrating and tormenting crooks to no end."