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> Try now to imagine an electrically driven vehicle catching fire during Christmas shopping season in mid-December in midtown Manhattan in front of Macy’s depar

by _ea1k 4y ago

> Try now to imagine an electrically driven vehicle catching fire during Christmas shopping season in mid-December in midtown Manhattan in front of Macy’s department store during rush hour at six o’clock in the evening. Why would I imagine that? This kind of thing happens from time to time with gas cars. Example (picked lazily and randomly): https://www.cbsnews.com/newyork/video/car-erupts-in-flames-near-chelsea-piers/#x https://www.cbsnews.com/newyork/video/car-erupts-in-flames-n... In some respects, Lithium Ion fires are harder to manage, but they also seem to happen less frequently. Maybe don't jump to conclusions based upon ~10 fires in vehicles flooded by saltwater?

jtbayly 4y ago
> but they also seem to happen less frequently. Do they? Even comparing only other new cars? I just don’t trust the claims so far.
- workshirt 4y ago
  It definitely happens much more frequently. So frequently that it doesn’t get articles written about it. It’s just not news. I saw a newer gas pick-up’s entire engine on fire and spilling spilling fire onto the road in the pouring rain just a week ago.
  - patmorgan23 4y ago
    A couple points EVs are novel so anything happening with them is going to get more coverage even if ICE have the same problem. There are FAR more ICE cars on the road than EVs so we have to adjust for that in figuring out the rate one would burst into flames.
    - bryanlarsen 4y ago
      The numbers in rcxdude's post are given in percentages
- theflyingelvis 4y ago
  Anecdotal but on my drive home I regularly see car-b-ques of ICE cars. Not so many EVs.
  - rcxdude 4y ago
    There is a sampling bias there though: most cars are still ICE, so if they caught fire at the same rate you would expect the same observation.
  - dsfyu404ed 4y ago
    You’re using a weird definition of regular. I’ve commuted almost a million miles in my life and seen one fire and that was a garbage truck. Of the “irregular” things I’ve seen on the road fire is probably one of the least common.
- rcxdude 4y ago
  Here's some data: https://www.autoinsuranceez.com/gas-vs-electric-car-fires/ https://www.autoinsuranceez.com/gas-vs-electric-car-fires/ What's odd is hybrids seem even more likely than petrol cars to catch fire, though EVs are far less likely. I guess the combination gives you the worst of both worlds in terms of fire risk.
  - lazide 4y ago
    It’s a very complex setup, mechanically and electrically, and yes does expose you to both battery and flammable liquid issues. It’s amazing it isn’t more of a problem, frankly.
  - jtbayly 4y ago
    From that article: “In older vehicles, the wiring and batteries start to break down, putting them more at risk of catching fire in an accident. Since most electric vehicles aren’t yet at the advanced age of older gas vehicles, there currently isn’t any data showing if they will be at a higher risk of battery and electric explosions as they age.” So this is not yet corrected for age of the vehicle.
- _ea1k 4y ago
  Its hard to say for sure. They haven't been on the road in large numbers for long enough to make comprehensive age adjusted estimates. There just aren't a lot of 10+ year old EVs on the road to use as comparison. The few that are on the road tend to be very low volume vehicles and diy conversions. Having said that, if you watch Tesla crashes much, you'll see a lot of amazingly hard side impacts that don't result in fires. Its actually pretty surprising to me how unusual post-crash fires are.
fragmede 4y ago
~10? How about ONE? For all the reporting, there really doesn't seem to be a spate of Tesla's blowing up in the wake of Ian. There's been three pictures of that one white Model Y, and it looks mostly intact. If there were really more than one incident I'd expect, well, more pictures and additional reports. If this is really actually a problem we can march with pitchforks to Tesla's HQ together, but given the tens of thousands of them that must have been in Florida when the storm hit, this seems like the media just has an axe to grind.
- _ea1k 4y ago
  That was an X not a Y, and there've been pictures of at least two others. One was at an apartment and another was in a ditch near some sort of vehicle repair shop. I don't have time now, but the 10 figure came from a report with official sources. I suspect it was pretty close to right. I don't know how it compares to gas car fires, which are also not uncommon after submersion in saltwater. Often the reason is the same too, the low voltage battery sometimes catches fire.
- _ea1k 4y ago
  Its too late to edit my earlier post, but here are some links: https://www.mynews13.com/fl/orlando/politics/2022/10/21/fl-republicans-seek-answers-on-ev-fires-resulting-from-ian-storm-surge#:~:text=Officials%20with%20the%20Florida%20CFO%27s,EV%20fires%20following%20Hurricane%20Ian https://www.mynews13.com/fl/orlando/politics/2022/10/21/fl-r.... https://www.eenews.net/articles/why-6-flooded-evs-burst-into-flames-after-hurricane-ian/ https://www.eenews.net/articles/why-6-flooded-evs-burst-into... https://www.huffpost.com/entry/ev-electric-vehicle-florida-fires-hurrican-ian_n_63536895e4b08e0e608ec153 https://www.huffpost.com/entry/ev-electric-vehicle-florida-f... Certainly not huge numbers in any case. Florida has a lot of EVs.
juunpp 4y ago
It's hilarious how overly specific that case of the imagination is. Would it make any difference if it were a GAP instead of a Macy's? Maybe Macy's burns better.
- matthewdgreen 4y ago
  Macy’s is the largest department store in the US. It’s like an entire city block in one of the densest neighborhoods in the country. So lots more street area for things to catch fire, lots more impact when it happens.
- evanelias 4y ago
  Well, to be fair, the Macy's flagship in Herald Square does have historic wooden escalators...

by _ea1k 4y ago

jtbayly 4y ago

> but they also seem to happen less frequently. Do they? Even comparing only other new cars? I just don’t trust the claims so far.

workshirt 4y ago
It definitely happens much more frequently. So frequently that it doesn’t get articles written about it. It’s just not news. I saw a newer gas pick-up’s entire engine on fire and spilling spilling fire onto the road in the pouring rain just a week ago.
- patmorgan23 4y ago
  A couple points EVs are novel so anything happening with them is going to get more coverage even if ICE have the same problem. There are FAR more ICE cars on the road than EVs so we have to adjust for that in figuring out the rate one would burst into flames.
  - bryanlarsen 4y ago
    The numbers in rcxdude's post are given in percentages
theflyingelvis 4y ago
Anecdotal but on my drive home I regularly see car-b-ques of ICE cars. Not so many EVs.
- rcxdude 4y ago
  There is a sampling bias there though: most cars are still ICE, so if they caught fire at the same rate you would expect the same observation.
- dsfyu404ed 4y ago
  You’re using a weird definition of regular. I’ve commuted almost a million miles in my life and seen one fire and that was a garbage truck. Of the “irregular” things I’ve seen on the road fire is probably one of the least common.
rcxdude 4y ago
Here's some data: https://www.autoinsuranceez.com/gas-vs-electric-car-fires/ https://www.autoinsuranceez.com/gas-vs-electric-car-fires/ What's odd is hybrids seem even more likely than petrol cars to catch fire, though EVs are far less likely. I guess the combination gives you the worst of both worlds in terms of fire risk.
- lazide 4y ago
  It’s a very complex setup, mechanically and electrically, and yes does expose you to both battery and flammable liquid issues. It’s amazing it isn’t more of a problem, frankly.
- jtbayly 4y ago
  From that article: “In older vehicles, the wiring and batteries start to break down, putting them more at risk of catching fire in an accident. Since most electric vehicles aren’t yet at the advanced age of older gas vehicles, there currently isn’t any data showing if they will be at a higher risk of battery and electric explosions as they age.” So this is not yet corrected for age of the vehicle.
_ea1k 4y ago
Its hard to say for sure. They haven't been on the road in large numbers for long enough to make comprehensive age adjusted estimates. There just aren't a lot of 10+ year old EVs on the road to use as comparison. The few that are on the road tend to be very low volume vehicles and diy conversions. Having said that, if you watch Tesla crashes much, you'll see a lot of amazingly hard side impacts that don't result in fires. Its actually pretty surprising to me how unusual post-crash fires are.

fragmede 4y ago

~10? How about ONE? For all the reporting, there really doesn't seem to be a spate of Tesla's blowing up in the wake of Ian. There's been three pictures of that one white Model Y, and it looks mostly intact. If there were really more than one incident I'd expect, well, more pictures and additional reports. If this is really actually a problem we can march with pitchforks to Tesla's HQ together, but given the tens of thousands of them that must have been in Florida when the storm hit, this seems like the media just has an axe to grind.

_ea1k 4y ago
That was an X not a Y, and there've been pictures of at least two others. One was at an apartment and another was in a ditch near some sort of vehicle repair shop. I don't have time now, but the 10 figure came from a report with official sources. I suspect it was pretty close to right. I don't know how it compares to gas car fires, which are also not uncommon after submersion in saltwater. Often the reason is the same too, the low voltage battery sometimes catches fire.
_ea1k 4y ago
Its too late to edit my earlier post, but here are some links: https://www.mynews13.com/fl/orlando/politics/2022/10/21/fl-republicans-seek-answers-on-ev-fires-resulting-from-ian-storm-surge#:~:text=Officials%20with%20the%20Florida%20CFO%27s,EV%20fires%20following%20Hurricane%20Ian https://www.mynews13.com/fl/orlando/politics/2022/10/21/fl-r.... https://www.eenews.net/articles/why-6-flooded-evs-burst-into-flames-after-hurricane-ian/ https://www.eenews.net/articles/why-6-flooded-evs-burst-into... https://www.huffpost.com/entry/ev-electric-vehicle-florida-fires-hurrican-ian_n_63536895e4b08e0e608ec153 https://www.huffpost.com/entry/ev-electric-vehicle-florida-f... Certainly not huge numbers in any case. Florida has a lot of EVs.

juunpp 4y ago

It's hilarious how overly specific that case of the imagination is. Would it make any difference if it were a GAP instead of a Macy's? Maybe Macy's burns better.

matthewdgreen 4y ago
Macy’s is the largest department store in the US. It’s like an entire city block in one of the densest neighborhoods in the country. So lots more street area for things to catch fire, lots more impact when it happens.
evanelias 4y ago
Well, to be fair, the Macy's flagship in Herald Square does have historic wooden escalators...