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How do you respond to the below? “Every business is a software business”, as Watts S. Humphrey, the father of quality in software and CMMI, said two decades ag

by agilob 4y ago

How do you respond to the below? “Every business is a software business”, as Watts S. Humphrey, the father of quality in software and CMMI, said two decades ago. The CEO of Microsoft, Satya Nadella, repeats the message: “all companies are software companies”.

endisneigh 4y ago
It’s obviously wrong. Is a restaurant a software business? Ridiculous. Software is great but there are other businesses. I could be convinced that all companies are energy companies, though.
- croes 4y ago
  Nowadays most of them are. The whole payment system largely depends on software.
  - siquick 4y ago
    But they would still be restaurants without software.
    - croes 4y ago
      But much fewer
    - nvader 4y ago
      Not for long. I think the point op is trying to make is without the investments in software to support business modeling, procuring supplies, scheduling staff, payroll, online marketing and all of the front of house functions like reservations, online menus and what have you, your steampunk restaurant is going to be outcompeted eventually.
      - endisneigh 4y ago
        It’s not true though. If you go to Kenya restaurants exist without computers.
- Consultant32452 4y ago
  POS, payroll, time-tracking, inventory, food ordering, logistics, market analysis, digital advertising, DoorDash/Uber Eats integration, online menu ordering for pickup, etc.
  - ianbutler 4y ago
    Exactly, good luck competing with other restaurants without those.
- yaj54 4y ago
  What's the difference between me making food at home for me to eat and a restaurant? The restaurant is a business. What's a business? It's an economic & logistics model that produces value using known processes and workflows. Say that a different way. It's a repeatable algorithm for producing value. What's our current best toolset for building models and algorithms? Software. We're done.
  - TheSpiceIsLife 4y ago
    In this model there's no difference between me making food at home and a hospitality venue making and serving food. This model assumes that everything can be reduced to an algorithm, a model. Anyways, getting hungry, enough of this nonsense, I need to go microwave some math.
  - endisneigh 4y ago
    Lol, I’m sure software will make a great restaurant. Using software does not make a software business.
noogle 4y ago
Are all companies energy companies? While that statement broadly applies to white-collar and services, what percentage of COGS is software in manufacturing? Is it 90%? 50%? or maybe only 5%? Software is useful. That doesn't make it important enough to command high pay in a shrinking economy.
- lotsofpulp 4y ago
  Importance does not command high pay, supply and demand does. The point of “every business is a software business” is to imply that demand for software developers will stay abreast with supply of software developers. Edit: also, obviously, the buyer needs to be able to pay, which is sort of related to software being able to be used to advance a business’s competitiveness in the market such that the business is able and willing to invest in software development
  - noogle 4y ago
    So it's all about actual numbers (supply and demand curve). The case of energy (and other industries like transportation and construction) shows that this supply-demand curve be weak enough to lower employee salary. Is there any argument that software won't behave similarly? Speaking about productivity, software is far from a guarantee of increased productivity - see the case of EHR in hospitals.
    - lotsofpulp 4y ago
      > Speaking about productivity, software is far from a guarantee of increased productivity - see the case of EHR in hospitals. Was this conclusively measured? I imagine there are fewer errors or better decisions made due to quick and easy availability of health history. I trust auditable, easily legible notes over chicken scratch handwriting faxed from office to office in previous years. With EHR, I can also catch healthcare providers writing notes about stuff that did not happen in the visit to cover their ass, although I imagine many doctors do this because a lot of the minutiae is a waste of time that just serves to help in case of lawsuits or billing disputes. But in any case, I would rather have access to that info than not in case in need to dispute it.
time_to_smile 4y ago
> two decades ago. I'm hoping your are aware that about two decades ago software devs took a TC hit that took at least a decade to recover from. Every pre-dotcom bust software engineer I knew made substantially more pre-bust than post-post until just a few years ago. In addition given the last N jobs I've had, while software is important in the world, most companies are vastly over indexed on software. A huge number of tech companies don't make more money than they spend, and we're so deep in a bubble people don't even care. Plumbing is also hugely important, I don't know a single company that can run without running water, but it doesn't mean we can all be plumbers making 250k+.
- anonym29 4y ago
  Software engineering can optimize more workplace activities than plumbing can. Once the plumbing is in place and working, you've exhausted the value that can be delivered by it. The only need for additional plumbing after that point is when something serious breaks (e.g. pipe bursts), which might be a once in a decade event at a typical business. The software engineer plays a part in optimizing accounting, payroll, communications, customer outreach / acquisition, sales, and some legal processes in virtually every business that exists - and those are just the most universal aspects. "X and Y are both important and therefore people doing X and Y should earn roughly the same amount of money" is the most ridiculous oversimplification I've heard in at least a week.
AndyPa32 4y ago
I work in a fortune 500 that sees itself explicitly as not a software company. The devs are only viewed as a nuisance by everybody else. The CTO reports to a finance guy. And it's a shit show. I agree with Humphrey and Nadella here and I assume that every company that doesn't get that leaves something valuable on the table.
TheSpiceIsLife 4y ago
I've been working in structural steel fabrication and construction for over two decades, when I started the product we put out the door had no software in it, and still doesn't today. There's definitely more software used to aid–that's the A in CAD/CAM)–in manufacturing, but software isn't what we sell.

by agilob 4y ago

endisneigh 4y ago

It’s obviously wrong. Is a restaurant a software business? Ridiculous. Software is great but there are other businesses. I could be convinced that all companies are energy companies, though.

croes 4y ago
Nowadays most of them are. The whole payment system largely depends on software.
- siquick 4y ago
  But they would still be restaurants without software.
  - croes 4y ago
    But much fewer
  - nvader 4y ago
    Not for long. I think the point op is trying to make is without the investments in software to support business modeling, procuring supplies, scheduling staff, payroll, online marketing and all of the front of house functions like reservations, online menus and what have you, your steampunk restaurant is going to be outcompeted eventually.
    - endisneigh 4y ago
      It’s not true though. If you go to Kenya restaurants exist without computers.
Consultant32452 4y ago
POS, payroll, time-tracking, inventory, food ordering, logistics, market analysis, digital advertising, DoorDash/Uber Eats integration, online menu ordering for pickup, etc.
- ianbutler 4y ago
  Exactly, good luck competing with other restaurants without those.
yaj54 4y ago
What's the difference between me making food at home for me to eat and a restaurant? The restaurant is a business. What's a business? It's an economic & logistics model that produces value using known processes and workflows. Say that a different way. It's a repeatable algorithm for producing value. What's our current best toolset for building models and algorithms? Software. We're done.
- TheSpiceIsLife 4y ago
  In this model there's no difference between me making food at home and a hospitality venue making and serving food. This model assumes that everything can be reduced to an algorithm, a model. Anyways, getting hungry, enough of this nonsense, I need to go microwave some math.
- endisneigh 4y ago
  Lol, I’m sure software will make a great restaurant. Using software does not make a software business.

noogle 4y ago

Are all companies energy companies? While that statement broadly applies to white-collar and services, what percentage of COGS is software in manufacturing? Is it 90%? 50%? or maybe only 5%? Software is useful. That doesn't make it important enough to command high pay in a shrinking economy.

lotsofpulp 4y ago
Importance does not command high pay, supply and demand does. The point of “every business is a software business” is to imply that demand for software developers will stay abreast with supply of software developers. Edit: also, obviously, the buyer needs to be able to pay, which is sort of related to software being able to be used to advance a business’s competitiveness in the market such that the business is able and willing to invest in software development
- noogle 4y ago
  So it's all about actual numbers (supply and demand curve). The case of energy (and other industries like transportation and construction) shows that this supply-demand curve be weak enough to lower employee salary. Is there any argument that software won't behave similarly? Speaking about productivity, software is far from a guarantee of increased productivity - see the case of EHR in hospitals.
  - lotsofpulp 4y ago
    > Speaking about productivity, software is far from a guarantee of increased productivity - see the case of EHR in hospitals. Was this conclusively measured? I imagine there are fewer errors or better decisions made due to quick and easy availability of health history. I trust auditable, easily legible notes over chicken scratch handwriting faxed from office to office in previous years. With EHR, I can also catch healthcare providers writing notes about stuff that did not happen in the visit to cover their ass, although I imagine many doctors do this because a lot of the minutiae is a waste of time that just serves to help in case of lawsuits or billing disputes. But in any case, I would rather have access to that info than not in case in need to dispute it.

time_to_smile 4y ago

> two decades ago. I'm hoping your are aware that about two decades ago software devs took a TC hit that took at least a decade to recover from. Every pre-dotcom bust software engineer I knew made substantially more pre-bust than post-post until just a few years ago. In addition given the last N jobs I've had, while software is important in the world, most companies are vastly over indexed on software. A huge number of tech companies don't make more money than they spend, and we're so deep in a bubble people don't even care. Plumbing is also hugely important, I don't know a single company that can run without running water, but it doesn't mean we can all be plumbers making 250k+.

anonym29 4y ago
Software engineering can optimize more workplace activities than plumbing can. Once the plumbing is in place and working, you've exhausted the value that can be delivered by it. The only need for additional plumbing after that point is when something serious breaks (e.g. pipe bursts), which might be a once in a decade event at a typical business. The software engineer plays a part in optimizing accounting, payroll, communications, customer outreach / acquisition, sales, and some legal processes in virtually every business that exists - and those are just the most universal aspects. "X and Y are both important and therefore people doing X and Y should earn roughly the same amount of money" is the most ridiculous oversimplification I've heard in at least a week.

AndyPa32 4y ago

I work in a fortune 500 that sees itself explicitly as not a software company. The devs are only viewed as a nuisance by everybody else. The CTO reports to a finance guy. And it's a shit show. I agree with Humphrey and Nadella here and I assume that every company that doesn't get that leaves something valuable on the table.

TheSpiceIsLife 4y ago

I've been working in structural steel fabrication and construction for over two decades, when I started the product we put out the door had no software in it, and still doesn't today. There's definitely more software used to aid–that's the A in CAD/CAM)–in manufacturing, but software isn't what we sell.