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Louis C.K. "I've never seen a check from a [TV] comedy special"
- rickdale 15y agothis is great because illegal downloading seems like such a victimless crime, but here we have a specific victim and so the 'crime' all of the sudden has drastically changed in scope.
- jrockway 15y agoOne factual error that the article makes is that DRM'd content is harder to pirate. That is simply not the case; every piece of content ever released is easily pirate-able. The only thing that DRM does is hurt legitimate users. Also, I was kind of upset by the "letter" that the person who uploaded the torrent wrote. "Art is meant to be shared"? Why bother justifying it with something that sounds stupid when you could just say nothing or say, "I thought people might want to get it this way, so here it is". Depressing. And finally, I never realized that Louis C.K. was so mainstream. I thought his humor appealed to me and maybe three other people. Oh well :)
- yan 15y agore: DRM, I wouldn't call it a factual error. The article didn't imply that it's not possible, it just said it was harder. And I'd argue stripping DRM (no matter how easy it is) is, is in fact harder than not bothering. re: Popularity, I thought so too, until I had to wait on a long, long line to see him in Caroline's over two years ago. I was lucky enough to snag tickets to the Beacon theater show (that he's selling now) and it sold out in minutes. He also did 3 consecutive shows in Brooklyn, NY, tickets to which were announced the day of practically and not a single person I know got tickets (and many, many tried). I heard lines wrapping the block more than once. I've never seen this kind of commitment to a comedian.
- scythe 15y ago>And I'd argue stripping DRM (no matter how easy it is) is, is in fact harder than not bothering. But it's never, ever, necessary, not when gazillions of scene groups strip DRM from a work and upload it as soon as it hits the market, if not before; sometimes they just get hold of the studio version. It might make some obscure video games harder to pirate, since it's much harder to strip DRM from code than from data, but video? No way. DRM makes it harder for me to put legitimate content on a device I own, but it makes it no harder to pirate that same content.
- deleted 15y ago[deleted]
- ColdSnickersBar 15y agoYou're not most people. I don't think you fully realize just how 'not-geeky' everyone else is. Almost every single internet user does NOT know how to torrent something at all. A lot of the people who are going to watch his performance would, basically, stop at trying to email a video to someone or copy it right to a DVD. If they can't do that, then they don't bother trying to distribute illegally at all. Having a DRM-free version basically means that the grandmas and middleschoolers and casual internet users of the world (almost everyone) are going to inevitably "pirate" it when they simply put it on a DVD or email it to a friend.
- danso 15y agoYou may be correct that DRM makes it "no harder to pirate that same content"...but it DOES make it harder for people to transfer files to each other through email/CDs/USB keys. To you, it may seem trivial to load up a torrent program and spend some of the day browsing the trackers, but this is not at all trivial to the average person. Think about it...DRM can be circumvented on iTunes music by burning it to a CD, giving someone the CD, and then ripping that CD. Or just burning to CD and ripping to your own computer and THEN distributing the files. Yet iTunes has been a huge success because people either do not realize this or because the few extra steps is not worth the effort. Small extra steps make a huge difference between what is theoretically doable and what people actually tolerate doing.
- chwahoo 15y ago"One factual error that the article makes is that DRM'd content is harder to pirate. That is simply not the case; every piece of content ever released is easily pirate-able. The only thing that DRM does is hurt legitimate users." That's hardly a "factual error". I can email an mp3 to my friend and have them play it. I can't do the same with a DRM'd song. Is that not harder? Instead I have to make extra efforts to strip the DRM or find a non-DRM'd version elsewhere. For non-technical users, it might actually be "hard" to pirate DRM'd content. While the article could/should have taken care to make the subtle point that you allude to, I find it's phrasing less disingenuous than yours.
- pyre 15y agoI think the point the parent was making is that all it takes it one person stripping the DRM and the content is on the Internet (torrents, usenet, private ftps, etc). It might not be easy to share person-to-person (for non-technical users), but if one just searches the Internet the content would be there somewhere.
- ColdSnickersBar 15y agoNon-technical users are almost every single user in the world. So, if DRM prevents just those people from being able to simply email a video to a friend, then it actually is preventing most "pirating".
- pyre 15y agoIt prevents person-to-person sharing for non-technical users of the original content. The real question is: How hard is it for a non-technical user to find and download a pirated version from the Internet? It's the difference between: Hey! This track is awesome lemme email it to you. and Hey! This track is awesome. Google for a pirated version of it!
- dmd 15y agoMost people I know outside of programming circles would find the latter to be WAY too much bother.
- ryandvm 15y ago> I never realized that Louis C.K. was so mainstream. I thought his humor appealed to me and maybe three other people. Well, he does have his own show on FX.
- smackfu 15y agoFX is the home of non-mainstream comedies.
- xer0 15y agoAnything on TV more widely available than public access is, almost by definition, mainstream. Even the non-mainstream shows are mainstream, their selling point being that they're "non-mainstream." If a show doesn't make big dollars for the network, it doesn't get on in the first place. Almost everything you see and touch today is mainstream, and if you think it isn't, it's because it's been marketed to you as non-mainstream.
- jrockway 15y agoI don't think that's quite fair. Some shows are more obscure than others. I'd use Parks & Recreation as an example of a "marketed as non-mainstream" show. It's not as popular as The Office, sure, but pretty much everyone has heard of it. Louie is a bit different. Most people haven't heard of FX, and of those that have, most people haven't watched Louie. So while not obscure like "one copy of this book was ever published", it's not "mainstream" like Seinfeld.
- deleted 15y ago[deleted]
- liquidcool 15y agoActually, I think if you look at the ratings Comedy Central has more obscure comedies. I am assuming that "non-mainstream" translates to small audience. Keep in mind that while Sunny started out as a cult hit, it's about to become the longest running live action comedy on cable. In contrast, last Thursday The Daily Show did worse than Sunny, The League, and Beavis and Butthead. And if you compare to broadcast, all of cable looks non-mainstream.
- deleted 15y ago[deleted]
- robotresearcher 15y ago> And finally, I never realized that Louis C.K. was so mainstream. I thought his humor appealed to me and maybe three other people. You've spotted his genius. Like 90s-era Nine Inch Nails or Metallica, he is the popular act that feels subversive. Reddit has this vibe too[1]. It's worth a fortune. [1] I know, you liked it before it jumped the shark, etc etc.
- MrJagil 15y ago"every piece of content ever released is easily pirate-able" Tell that to the guys trying to crack propellerheads Reason 6.
- waitwhat 15y agoTo save anyone else the googling: Reason 6 requires a dongle.
- mukyu 15y agoWhile it may be true that all DRM is pointless in an ideal world there are cases where it actually works. Good counter-examples are Autodesk's products (their DRM/dongles stand up for 6+ months) or the PS3 that took years for people to be able to play pirated games.
- aspir 15y agoThis most important piece here is that he's already broken even. Wow! I'd love to see the numbers comparing a Comedy Central production and Louis' self funded production. I bet there's countless areas of negligent spending in the CC production.
- yan 15y agoFirst, I think what Louis is doing is amazing and am a huge fan. Having said that however, how many other comedians can pull this off? He has a very large, very dedicated audience. Likewise for music. Trent Reznor can pull off very successful self-productions, but he's also Trent Reznor. The question is, how can you make this model scale down to lesser-known acts?
- smackfu 15y agoIn books, the answer is to sell eBooks priced at impulse levels, then sell thousands or millions of copies. For instance, the #5 seller on the Kindle is a $1 book: http://www.amazon.com/Wife-by-Wednesday-ebook/dp/B005SJLB24/ref=zg_bs_digital-text_5 http://www.amazon.com/Wife-by-Wednesday-ebook/dp/B005SJLB24/...
- chwahoo 15y agoThis only scales so far. Once more books are priced at impulse levels, it will provide less of an advantage and ultimately hurt your bottom line compared to the current typical price level. It's similar to web apps being "free" in order to attract eyes/users. I think competing on other fronts (quality, connection with users/readers, obsession with consumer satisfaction) are preferable to cutting price because it's "too easy" to compete on price
- bediger 15y agoGot any examples of this? I mean, lots of stuff (gum and "People" magazine at the grocery store, screwdriver bits and flashlights at the hardware store) is priced at impulse levels in lots of stores, lots of types of stores. Whose bottom line is that hurting? Dewalt's or Wrigley's or Maglite's? I don't really think so.
- snarkyturtle 15y agoExcept people don't do Comedy Central specials for the money, they do it to get exposure. Heralding C.K's success is like how people praised Radiohead for releasing their album independently. He already has a rabid and loyal fan base, but that's after working the comedy scene, writing for big shows, having stand-up specials on HBO. This article makes it seem like anybody can generate their own material, promote it and eventually have their own TV show, but there's a lot more to it than that.
- jonknee 15y agoSomeone has to be first. If this goes well for Louis maybe that will make other comedians do the same. The power balance shifts. There's no reason why he can't sell material from other comedians too.
- SODaniel 15y agoI refuse to be described as a 'Rabid' fan. Mangy? Yes. Creepy? Certainly. But Rabid? No sir, that I am not.
- cmdrreiki 15y agoEven fan is already enough of an insult. I refuse to be a fanatic about anything.
- JoeAltmaier 15y agoWhat a sweet deal for Comedy Central! They've convinced everybody that somehow there's no money to pay them, they'll just have to do it for free. That sounds suspiciously convenient.
- kin 15y agoCan't believe someone put it on a Torrent site with that lame excuse. His experiment is interesting and I think it works but only for acts like him. I'd like to see stats on the Humble Indy bundles I feel they follow the same model but at a smaller scale.
- burgerbrain 15y agoIt's like when Sam Odio wrecked Jonathan's Card, there is always going to be that one jackass. Thankfully though people can still feel good about paying for this after somebody does that.
- omouse 15y agoThe torrent includes a link to the "BUY THIS VIDEO" page. I paid for the video and didn't download it from his website. I would be interested in knowing what the bandwidth costs for Louis C.K. are since the video was around 1GB. The number of torrenters was 10,000. That's 10TB of bandwidth which I imagine costs quite a bit...so those torrenters were saving him a bit of cash.
- lukifer 15y agoBuying the special allows you only two downloads, even if the download doesn't complete. My first try, the Wi-Fi dropped; luckily, the second worked. While waiting, I was bemused thinking that I would have a legitimate reason to torrent if it didn't go through. (Actually, I would have just bought it again, as an excuse to give the man more money. Like his bit with the veteran on the plane, I got a hit of feeling good about myself without actually having to follow through. :P)
- kin 15y agoFair enough, though I wasn't at all upset at the idea of seeding the video 'cause honestly digital distribution should be free, just the note he put with the seed felt selfish and in the context of the article did not include a link. I understand as an alternate to downloading and getting what you paid for sure, you can seed it. But don't put it up there with a note that says the video should be free.
- funkah 15y agoI was surprised that he revealed yesterday in the reddit thing that he has never owned a home or had real financial security. I'm enough of a fan to know that he is definitely not rich from comedy, but I somehow figured he had made enough to own a home outright at least. FTA: "And a friend of mine who does torrent stuff a lot says that when torrent users do buy something, they act like they're doing the greatest thing ever. ... They're saying, 'I bought something today. I paid for it. And I didn't steal it. I'm the greatest person alive.'" I've noticed this attitude as well. It's really, really annoying.
- tptacek 15y agoI've seen him live a couple times, and he's gotten up on stage and joked about how much more money he has than everyone in the entire room. I don't think he's hurting.
- ramy_d 15y agohe's also done the opposite the "I don't even have 'no money'" routine.
- jrockway 15y agoHe also tried to buy a 22 million dollar house in Louie, and succeeded despite his accountant's insistence that he could not afford the $70,000 a month payment. So there you go. Both at the same time.
- gospelwut 15y agoWow, everything about HN really is the opposite of Reddit.
- joejohnson 15y agoI know. HN is so cool. And people here never point that out, unlike that lame circle-jerk Reddit.
- _delirium 15y agoI assumed it was sarcastic, since posting about Louis CK all the time for the past 5 years is sort of Reddit's thing.
- deleted 15y ago[deleted]
- mcantelon 15y agoLouis CK is a pretty interesting dude. I was quite surprised when in his Reddit AMA he revealed he did the video editing on the comedy special. Pretty awesome.
- chris_gogreen 15y agoWhat exactly does he mean he's never seen a check, he does TV specials for free?
- S_A_P 15y agoit means that he gets paid a small advance, does the show, and then the networks collect all the dvd and merch sales and dont give him any royalties...
- neuroelectronic 15y agoIs he retarded or is this standard practice for comedians?
- BeSublime 15y agoI was listening to this today to and from lunch, and can't wait to catch the whole thing later. I wanted to share it with the redditers and imgur LCK fans, so I'm glad its this high on the HN list because that means they've probably are all reading/hearing it like I'd hoped. I hope it continues to get spread and discussed. Unrelated note: Awesome to hear that he listens to Fresh Air regularly. More people need to know that NPR and APM aren't just for weirdos and boring old folks. I'm 27 and love NPR, and although I probably wouldn't have enjoyed it in high school, I do wish I had discovered it wayyyy earlier in my life.
- rohwer 15y agoOn the WTF Podcast by Marc Maron, he explains how his terrible buying habits with an Amex black card, including a new Mercedes, a sojourn at the Ritz, and a brass instrument, led to his inability to get a credit card for many years. He basically lost his way after comedy clubs closed in the late 80's and had to reinvent himself. Youtube his old "I have a peach" routine to understand his reinvention. Here is a version of it: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GmZfVCSzEw0 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GmZfVCSzEw0
- alf 15y agoI like Louis C.K., was made aware of his new video through this posting, and just bought the video, but I don't think this belongs on HN.
- abrichr 15y ago"What to Submit ... anything that gratifies one's intellectual curiosity." [1] [1] http://ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html http://ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
- un1xl0ser 15y agoSo how do I buy it without Paypal? Oh well. Maybe that can be the next battle.