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> Firing based on LoC will definitely get rid of a few great engineers The average front end developer probably writes 10x the LOC of the best backend develope

> Firing based on LoC will definitely get rid of a few great engineers The average front end developer probably writes 10x the LOC of the best backend developers, so it may actually get rid of the majority of your best engineers.

paxys 4y ago
Or you can segment people into relevant groups and judge them within those groups?
- watwut 4y ago
  Juniors produce more code then seniors. Easy tasks produce more code then hard tasks. And the distribution of tasks is not random either, some people do more of easy ones others hard ones.
  - MichaelCollins 4y ago
    Judge seniors as seniors, and juniors as juniors. You say that juniors are probably writing a ton of code.. well some of them aren't doing that. Some of the juniors are slackers who are coasting on their social skills and office rapport. Looking at LOC changed can help you identify these people. Confront them with this data and give them the opportunity to explain themselves. Some of them may have good excuses for why they don't have much code but have certainly been working hard. Many of them won't. Or should we pretend that everybody at twitter is a hard and honest worker?
    - watwut 4y ago
      I did not said probably. I said, Juniors systematically as a rule produce more code. And even in that bracket, I will give harder tasks to more capable junior ... leading to them producing less code. I will also help less to more capable junior and help more to weaker one - leading to more capable junior spending more time figuring stuff independently. That is super useful for team productivity (he is not hogging senior). Seniors have also huge differences due to doing different tasks. A go to guy for stuck out issues produces less code then someone on greenfield module. And loc has zero with productivity. Unclear analysis and requirements are another source of low LOC. You produce less of them when you are spending a lot of time reading convoluted sentences or calling people for clarifications. Seriously, are you all working on repetitive web shop tasks that you think loc has anything to do with productivity? Or not coding at all?
    - falcolas 4y ago
      > Or should we pretend that everybody at twitter is a hard and honest worker? Much like how we are asked to assume the best of posts here on HN, and presume innocence of those on trial for crimes, yes, that seems like a good place to start from.
      - MichaelCollins 4y ago
        Assuming that any particular worker is competent until proven otherwise is fair. Assuming that all workers are competent is just naive. You may as well assume there are no bike thieves in NYC.
        falcolas 4y ago
        We're discussing 50-75% layoffs - terminating the employment between 3,500 and 5,250 software engineers... people. I feel it's completely fair to assume that a vast majority of them are competent. Just as I assume that a vast majority of people on bicycles in NYC aren't thieves.

paxys 4y ago

Or you can segment people into relevant groups and judge them within those groups?

watwut 4y ago
Juniors produce more code then seniors. Easy tasks produce more code then hard tasks. And the distribution of tasks is not random either, some people do more of easy ones others hard ones.
- MichaelCollins 4y ago
  Judge seniors as seniors, and juniors as juniors. You say that juniors are probably writing a ton of code.. well some of them aren't doing that. Some of the juniors are slackers who are coasting on their social skills and office rapport. Looking at LOC changed can help you identify these people. Confront them with this data and give them the opportunity to explain themselves. Some of them may have good excuses for why they don't have much code but have certainly been working hard. Many of them won't. Or should we pretend that everybody at twitter is a hard and honest worker?
  - watwut 4y ago
    I did not said probably. I said, Juniors systematically as a rule produce more code. And even in that bracket, I will give harder tasks to more capable junior ... leading to them producing less code. I will also help less to more capable junior and help more to weaker one - leading to more capable junior spending more time figuring stuff independently. That is super useful for team productivity (he is not hogging senior). Seniors have also huge differences due to doing different tasks. A go to guy for stuck out issues produces less code then someone on greenfield module. And loc has zero with productivity. Unclear analysis and requirements are another source of low LOC. You produce less of them when you are spending a lot of time reading convoluted sentences or calling people for clarifications. Seriously, are you all working on repetitive web shop tasks that you think loc has anything to do with productivity? Or not coding at all?
  - falcolas 4y ago
    > Or should we pretend that everybody at twitter is a hard and honest worker? Much like how we are asked to assume the best of posts here on HN, and presume innocence of those on trial for crimes, yes, that seems like a good place to start from.
    - MichaelCollins 4y ago
      Assuming that any particular worker is competent until proven otherwise is fair. Assuming that all workers are competent is just naive. You may as well assume there are no bike thieves in NYC.
      - falcolas 4y ago
        We're discussing 50-75% layoffs - terminating the employment between 3,500 and 5,250 software engineers... people. I feel it's completely fair to assume that a vast majority of them are competent. Just as I assume that a vast majority of people on bicycles in NYC aren't thieves.