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I remember 15 years ago reading about EUV litography and a lot of people were saying that it looks like a pipe dream because they don't know of any way to produ

by 323 4y ago

I remember 15 years ago reading about EUV litography and a lot of people were saying that it looks like a pipe dream because they don't know of any way to produce a EUV light source strong enough, outside nuclear explosions and the like.

exyi 4y ago
So it took about 10 years to get into production. OP isn't claiming it's impossible, just that it's far from being practical. You could definitely say that about EUV 15y ago
kken 4y ago
It took 25 years to commercialize EUV. And that is from the point where a decision was made to industrialize it, not from the first scientific report about EUV radiation. edit, see Zeiss page on EUV: https://www.zeiss.com/semiconductor-manufacturing-technology/smt-magazine/euv-lithography-as-an-european-joint-project.html https://www.zeiss.com/semiconductor-manufacturing-technology...
- rocket_surgeron 4y ago
  Some of people and organizations think in terms of decades and know that "soon" doesn't mean "tomorrow". The world will not be free of short-term thinking until the last MBA is strangled with the entrails of the last PMP.
coldtea 4y ago
Yes, but do you remember all the BS PR releases about new "promising" techniques and materials that would "revolutionize" this or that process, that we read 15 and 20 and 30 years ago, that never materialized at all?
- sylware 4y ago
  nanoimprint (heard it is making a comeback in Japan), x-ray litography, mass electron beam litography...
nomel 4y ago
It looks like small piece of tin is where the magic begins [1]: > An EUV system uses a high-energy laser that fires on a microscopic droplet of molten tin and turns it into plasma, emitting EUV light, which then is focused into a beam. is the spectrum naturally pure, or is there some filtering/selection going on? > The tricky thing with EUV light is that it’s absorbed by everything, even air. That’s why an EUV system has a large high-vacuum chamber in which the light can travel far enough to land on the wafer. The light is guided by a series of ultra-reflective mirrors The system uses 1MW of power! 1. https://medium.com/@ASMLcompany/a-backgrounder-on-extreme-ultraviolet-euv-lithography-a5fccb8e99f4 https://medium.com/@ASMLcompany/a-backgrounder-on-extreme-ul...
- throwawaymaths 4y ago
  There's filtering, but the spectrum should have (near) discrete wavelengths that it emits at selectively
- pas 4y ago
  ahahah, that's not even the craziest thing about EUV. it's that the whole process has two actual laser shots, there is a preshot that heats the tin, forms a plasma that is shaped like a lens. and then comes the stronger, main shot. https://www.degruyter.com/document/doi/10.1515/aot-2017-0029/html https://www.degruyter.com/document/doi/10.1515/aot-2017-0029... see pre-pulse part.

by 323 4y ago

exyi 4y ago

So it took about 10 years to get into production. OP isn't claiming it's impossible, just that it's far from being practical. You could definitely say that about EUV 15y ago

kken 4y ago

It took 25 years to commercialize EUV. And that is from the point where a decision was made to industrialize it, not from the first scientific report about EUV radiation. edit, see Zeiss page on EUV: https://www.zeiss.com/semiconductor-manufacturing-technology/smt-magazine/euv-lithography-as-an-european-joint-project.html https://www.zeiss.com/semiconductor-manufacturing-technology...

rocket_surgeron 4y ago
Some of people and organizations think in terms of decades and know that "soon" doesn't mean "tomorrow". The world will not be free of short-term thinking until the last MBA is strangled with the entrails of the last PMP.

coldtea 4y ago

Yes, but do you remember all the BS PR releases about new "promising" techniques and materials that would "revolutionize" this or that process, that we read 15 and 20 and 30 years ago, that never materialized at all?

sylware 4y ago
nanoimprint (heard it is making a comeback in Japan), x-ray litography, mass electron beam litography...

nomel 4y ago

It looks like small piece of tin is where the magic begins [1]: > An EUV system uses a high-energy laser that fires on a microscopic droplet of molten tin and turns it into plasma, emitting EUV light, which then is focused into a beam. is the spectrum naturally pure, or is there some filtering/selection going on? > The tricky thing with EUV light is that it’s absorbed by everything, even air. That’s why an EUV system has a large high-vacuum chamber in which the light can travel far enough to land on the wafer. The light is guided by a series of ultra-reflective mirrors The system uses 1MW of power! 1. https://medium.com/@ASMLcompany/a-backgrounder-on-extreme-ultraviolet-euv-lithography-a5fccb8e99f4 https://medium.com/@ASMLcompany/a-backgrounder-on-extreme-ul...

throwawaymaths 4y ago
There's filtering, but the spectrum should have (near) discrete wavelengths that it emits at selectively
pas 4y ago
ahahah, that's not even the craziest thing about EUV. it's that the whole process has two actual laser shots, there is a preshot that heats the tin, forms a plasma that is shaped like a lens. and then comes the stronger, main shot. https://www.degruyter.com/document/doi/10.1515/aot-2017-0029/html https://www.degruyter.com/document/doi/10.1515/aot-2017-0029... see pre-pulse part.