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Subs like /r/askscience and /r/science have always needed moderation even before Reddit became cancer. The problem is the unauditable censorship. This is espec
by mike_hock 4y ago
Subs like /r/askscience and /r/science have always needed moderation even before Reddit became cancer.
The problem is the unauditable censorship. This is especially important on political forums but it also becomes relevant on science forums when scientific issues are starting to be politicized.
Of course, Reddit can be whatever it wants, but as it stands, you can only treat it as a propaganda outlet, as you have no way of knowing what gets removed.
The way we can make moderation trustworthy is the same way we make software trustworthy: By putting it out in the open so anyone can scrutinize it and raise a stink when they discover something suspicious, and can't be silenced.
There is almost zero legitimate reason to completely scrub any comment, hiding them by default would work just fine. The only reason to really delete a comment would be if it directly puts a person in danger, such as by containing personally identifying information.
Hard censorship must be a rare enough event that it becomes a scandal and everybody hears about it. The normalization of censorship allows moderators to do basically anything they want, because comments being removed is just expected and doesn't raise any eyebrows anymore. "Oh yeah, those 75% removed comments were just memes and hate speech."
The other side of the coin is that flooding forums with memes, hate speech, and inane nonsense is a quick and easy way to drown out meaningful discussion and actual information, so soft censorship is necessary.
They are two different attack vectors, and we need a defense against both of them. To prevent infiltration of the mod team, speech that we accept to be censored completely must require actual effort so mods can't plausibly claim it was "just memes" when comments get removed on a daily basis. To prevent exterior soft censorship by flooding, we ironically need moderation with power to implement soft censorship, but one that we can trust.
We also cannot accept "hate speech" (or any other combination of words) that requires zero effort to produce to be a reason to force moderators to implement hard censorship. That allows anyone to censor any platform they like or at a minimum to force its moderators to destroy the trust the platform's users can objectively have in them.
Of course, this isn't completely implementable due to unreasonable laws in pretty much every country in the world, but a trustworthy platform would at least try to approximate it as closely as possible under the laws they're bound by. Reddit certainly isn't one, at least it hasn't been since Aaron Swartz was bullied out a long time ago.
- rhaksw 4y ago> The problem is the unauditable censorship. It's not even that. The biggest problem is more basic, that authors themselves are shown their removed content as if it's not removed! You can see that in action here [1]. It's happening everywhere, on every issue, on every side, in every geography and on every major platform. Start there. We don't even need to ask to see everything that gets removed yet. Asking for users to be able to know when their content gets removed is enough. And as I said elsewhere [1], this transparency must be citizen provided by raising awareness and through newly built Reveddit-like technology for other social media sites. Expecting the government do achieve this for us will only delay the inevitable realization that we must build these systems ourselves. As I mention in the talk linked on this post at 26:10, don't ask someone to fix it for you– that's handing power over to authorities. You fix it. [1] https://www.reddit.com/r/CantSayAnything/about/sticky/ https://www.reddit.com/r/CantSayAnything/about/sticky/ [2] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=33480576 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=33480576