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I can see how shadowbanning ("bot-bans") is effective against bot accounts, since it's less trivial for a bot maker to write code that detects when their bot ha

by samhuk 4y ago

I can see how shadowbanning ("bot-bans") is effective against bot accounts, since it's less trivial for a bot maker to write code that detects when their bot has been detected, resulting in a lower rate of new bot accounts. That makes sense. However what seems to have occurred is a widespread blatant misuse of bot-bans to silence different views from the group of moderators. shadowbanning is obviously a security-through-obscurity measure. Instead of having good bot detection, they seem to just give moderators an invisible-yet-almighty ban hammer with no accountability. I've personally never used Reddit other than as a lurker to skim the valuable content from subreddits like r/BIFL, etc. I've found the politiking of platforms like Reddit too vitriolic for my tastes :/

rhaksw 4y ago
> I can see how shadowbanning ("bot-bans")is effective against bot accounts, since it's less trivial for a bot maker to write code that detects when their bot has been detected, resulting in a lower rate of new bot accounts. Huh? It's trivial to write code that detects shadow bans, and bot-makers are more likely to write such code than individuals who get shadow banned. I mention this at 28:00 in the linked video on this post. The fuss over bots makes no sense to me. It's just an excuse to build more dystopian shadow removal or shadow demotion tools. Bot or not, some human is behind the pushing of every single piece of content you see. There is no AGI, and therefore machine-learning-driven algorithms are trained on data that comes from humans.
- samhuk 4y ago
  Like security through obscurity, it will thwart probably a small percentage of the total new bot accounts. The issue is that you are right, eventually people catch on to the obscurity.
- pixl97 4y ago
  >The fuss over bots makes no sense to me. Have you been paying attention to some of the content ending up on reddit then? I've been seeing accounts in posts with no original content. They appear to index other users threads then apply some ML and post them to other similar subjects where it seems to fit. It was only when I saw one of these bots post the same content in a thread with two different user accounts that I realised this was a thing. "But it comes from humans" Cancer is a human cell, just coming from humans doesn't mean it can have a negative outcome if allowed to spread. Reddit is a business with costs. The business model assumes that at least some percentage of content pulled will drive ad revenue that allows the business to run servers. You can keep increasing the portion of bots to humans to the point that the business model is not sustainable. Letting "Dead Internet Theory" run wild is a great way to go out of business quickly.
  - vasco 4y ago
    You're ignoring the core argument and going on a tangent. Bots being a problem (which they very well might be) is not at all solved by shadowbanning because it's trivial to detect.

by samhuk 4y ago

rhaksw 4y ago

> I can see how shadowbanning ("bot-bans")is effective against bot accounts, since it's less trivial for a bot maker to write code that detects when their bot has been detected, resulting in a lower rate of new bot accounts. Huh? It's trivial to write code that detects shadow bans, and bot-makers are more likely to write such code than individuals who get shadow banned. I mention this at 28:00 in the linked video on this post. The fuss over bots makes no sense to me. It's just an excuse to build more dystopian shadow removal or shadow demotion tools. Bot or not, some human is behind the pushing of every single piece of content you see. There is no AGI, and therefore machine-learning-driven algorithms are trained on data that comes from humans.

samhuk 4y ago
Like security through obscurity, it will thwart probably a small percentage of the total new bot accounts. The issue is that you are right, eventually people catch on to the obscurity.
pixl97 4y ago
>The fuss over bots makes no sense to me. Have you been paying attention to some of the content ending up on reddit then? I've been seeing accounts in posts with no original content. They appear to index other users threads then apply some ML and post them to other similar subjects where it seems to fit. It was only when I saw one of these bots post the same content in a thread with two different user accounts that I realised this was a thing. "But it comes from humans" Cancer is a human cell, just coming from humans doesn't mean it can have a negative outcome if allowed to spread. Reddit is a business with costs. The business model assumes that at least some percentage of content pulled will drive ad revenue that allows the business to run servers. You can keep increasing the portion of bots to humans to the point that the business model is not sustainable. Letting "Dead Internet Theory" run wild is a great way to go out of business quickly.
- vasco 4y ago
  You're ignoring the core argument and going on a tangent. Bots being a problem (which they very well might be) is not at all solved by shadowbanning because it's trivial to detect.