7 ms·

Busted: BitTorrent Pirates at Sony, Universal and Fox

146 points by jjp9999 15y ago

iloveponies 15y ago
As someone inside the music industry, this comes as no surprise. The spotlight of the attempts of anti-piracy actions on the part of the big four and rights groups overshadows the actions of the individuals working at these companies and the others in the industry. Not everyone in these companies agrees with what the rights groups and major labels/studios are doing, or see it as case of "it's okay for as long as it's not ours".
- gvb 15y ago
  The first rule of leadership is to be willing to do what you ask of others. The stink of hypocrisy is to ask others to do what you are unwilling to do yourself. I am sure all of the companies involved have a "no piracy" company policy on their books with severe penalties (probably reprimands leading to dismissal on repeated offenses). If they are unwilling to enforce their own policies on their own employees, they are being hypocrites, not leaders.
  - iloveponies 15y ago
    You're probably right. And you may find those who are breaking these rules are the ones entrusted (sysadmins) to uphold and enforce these rules.
nickolai 15y ago
An insightful nugget at the very end, for anyone missing it: >In a response [another copyright advocate caught 'stealing'] issued a press release stating that their IP-addresses were spoofed. A very unlikely scenario, but one that will be welcomed by BitTorrent pirates worldwide. In fact, we encourage Sony, Universal and Fox to say something similar. After all, if it’s so easy to spoof an IP-address, then accused file-sharers can use this same defense against copyright holders. Could such a defense be expected to work ? Has it ever ?
- Jach 15y ago
  It's not exactly a knockdown argument by itself, but it just adds a little more to the pool of thought saying an IP address doesn't correspond to an individual. That viewpoint seems to be gaining more and more momentum, e.g. somewhat recently: http://torrentfreak.com/ip-address-not-a-person-bittorrent-case-judge-says-110503/ http://torrentfreak.com/ip-address-not-a-person-bittorrent-c...
  - MichaelGG 15y ago
    I thought that BitTorrent used TCP? If so, spoofing a connection requires being in a position where you can intercept the return packet in order to be able to complete the TCP handshake. Possible, but requires a spoofer to be very well connected.
    - Jach 15y ago
      I don't think they mean spoof in such a technical way. I think they just mean it as "the You Have Downloaded website could be just generating files to go with IPs", and similarly "any torrent logs may have been spoofed/made up." Obviously the next step for the You Have Downloaded site is to track in real-time and say "This IP is currently downloading x,y,z."
    - skymt 15y ago
      You don't need to spoof a TCP connection to register a spoofed IP address on a tracker. The tracker GET request has an optional `ip` field, the contents of which is registered as the client's address, regardless of the source address of the actual request. So it's trivial to write a Bittorrent client that reports a false address to the tracker. http://bittorrent.org/beps/bep_0003.html http://bittorrent.org/beps/bep_0003.html
      - ay 15y ago
        So does this optional parameter fully override the peer's address in the reporting ?
onedognight 15y ago
When someone at Sony, Universal and Fox use bittorrent, why is that not legal distribution? Especially when they hire someone to spy on bittorrent users, because in that case their distribution is clearly authorized. Maybe the blocklists used by torrent clients should be inverted?
- freehunter 15y ago
  It's about intent. If you didn't know that Sony was distributing this film, you cannot claim you were downloading a film from Sony directly. You'd have to prove you knew that before downloading it, which you generally cannot do. I don't know of any tracker that will tell you what IPs are currently connected (though it might be possible). Even then, while downloading you're generally uploading as well, so you could still be charged with distribution.
  - spindritf 15y ago
    > I don't know of any tracker that will tell you what IPs are currently connected Maybe I don't fully understand your comment but every tracker will tell you what IPs are currently connected. That is what trackers do, that is the very feature that make them trackers.
    - freehunter 15y ago
      Sorry, my brain made the connection from the previous sentence between "before you begin to download" to "telling you the IPs". I should have added that to the sentence that confused you as well, I haven't seen any that tell you the IPs that are currently connected before you begin to download. So you have to initiate the download before you can find out who is connected.
- unabridged 15y ago
  I've always felt that when two torrent clients start talking, they should require each other to say something to the effect: "I am an agent of the copyright holder of this material, and I hereby authorize you to use and distribute this material freely" before sending any data. Try to sue someone in court when you have your investigator on record telling them they can use and distribute your works.
darksaga 15y ago
I thought it was interesting everybody thought the site was s joke. Now we have a highly trafficked site using it as a means to convict the companies who are going after the pirates.
Aloisius 15y ago
There were plenty of people coming from the IPs of music labels on Napster back in the day so it doesn't surprise me that they continue to use P2P services. IIRC, it was on the order of tens of thousands though that included parent companies and subsidiaries. Our lawyers told us it wasn't useful (and might have been harmful) to our case so we never did anything with the information.
eulo 15y ago
They're just getting back what they own, one download at a time. Makes sense

146 points by jjp9999 15y ago

As someone inside the music industry, this comes as no surprise. The spotlight of the attempts of anti-piracy actions on the part of the big four and rights groups overshadows the actions of the individuals working at these companies and the others in the industry. Not everyone in these companies agrees with what the rights groups and major labels/studios are doing, or see it as case of "it's okay for as long as it's not ours".

gvb 15y ago
The first rule of leadership is to be willing to do what you ask of others. The stink of hypocrisy is to ask others to do what you are unwilling to do yourself. I am sure all of the companies involved have a "no piracy" company policy on their books with severe penalties (probably reprimands leading to dismissal on repeated offenses). If they are unwilling to enforce their own policies on their own employees, they are being hypocrites, not leaders.
- iloveponies 15y ago
  You're probably right. And you may find those who are breaking these rules are the ones entrusted (sysadmins) to uphold and enforce these rules.

nickolai 15y ago

An insightful nugget at the very end, for anyone missing it: >In a response [another copyright advocate caught 'stealing'] issued a press release stating that their IP-addresses were spoofed. A very unlikely scenario, but one that will be welcomed by BitTorrent pirates worldwide. In fact, we encourage Sony, Universal and Fox to say something similar. After all, if it’s so easy to spoof an IP-address, then accused file-sharers can use this same defense against copyright holders. Could such a defense be expected to work ? Has it ever ?

Jach 15y ago
It's not exactly a knockdown argument by itself, but it just adds a little more to the pool of thought saying an IP address doesn't correspond to an individual. That viewpoint seems to be gaining more and more momentum, e.g. somewhat recently: http://torrentfreak.com/ip-address-not-a-person-bittorrent-case-judge-says-110503/ http://torrentfreak.com/ip-address-not-a-person-bittorrent-c...
- MichaelGG 15y ago
  I thought that BitTorrent used TCP? If so, spoofing a connection requires being in a position where you can intercept the return packet in order to be able to complete the TCP handshake. Possible, but requires a spoofer to be very well connected.
  - Jach 15y ago
    I don't think they mean spoof in such a technical way. I think they just mean it as "the You Have Downloaded website could be just generating files to go with IPs", and similarly "any torrent logs may have been spoofed/made up." Obviously the next step for the You Have Downloaded site is to track in real-time and say "This IP is currently downloading x,y,z."
  - skymt 15y ago
    You don't need to spoof a TCP connection to register a spoofed IP address on a tracker. The tracker GET request has an optional `ip` field, the contents of which is registered as the client's address, regardless of the source address of the actual request. So it's trivial to write a Bittorrent client that reports a false address to the tracker. http://bittorrent.org/beps/bep_0003.html http://bittorrent.org/beps/bep_0003.html
    - ay 15y ago
      So does this optional parameter fully override the peer's address in the reporting ?

onedognight 15y ago

When someone at Sony, Universal and Fox use bittorrent, why is that not legal distribution? Especially when they hire someone to spy on bittorrent users, because in that case their distribution is clearly authorized. Maybe the blocklists used by torrent clients should be inverted?

freehunter 15y ago
It's about intent. If you didn't know that Sony was distributing this film, you cannot claim you were downloading a film from Sony directly. You'd have to prove you knew that before downloading it, which you generally cannot do. I don't know of any tracker that will tell you what IPs are currently connected (though it might be possible). Even then, while downloading you're generally uploading as well, so you could still be charged with distribution.
- spindritf 15y ago
  > I don't know of any tracker that will tell you what IPs are currently connected Maybe I don't fully understand your comment but every tracker will tell you what IPs are currently connected. That is what trackers do, that is the very feature that make them trackers.
  - freehunter 15y ago
    Sorry, my brain made the connection from the previous sentence between "before you begin to download" to "telling you the IPs". I should have added that to the sentence that confused you as well, I haven't seen any that tell you the IPs that are currently connected before you begin to download. So you have to initiate the download before you can find out who is connected.
unabridged 15y ago
I've always felt that when two torrent clients start talking, they should require each other to say something to the effect: "I am an agent of the copyright holder of this material, and I hereby authorize you to use and distribute this material freely" before sending any data. Try to sue someone in court when you have your investigator on record telling them they can use and distribute your works.

darksaga 15y ago

I thought it was interesting everybody thought the site was s joke. Now we have a highly trafficked site using it as a means to convict the companies who are going after the pirates.

Aloisius 15y ago

There were plenty of people coming from the IPs of music labels on Napster back in the day so it doesn't surprise me that they continue to use P2P services. IIRC, it was on the order of tens of thousands though that included parent companies and subsidiaries. Our lawyers told us it wasn't useful (and might have been harmful) to our case so we never did anything with the information.

eulo 15y ago

They're just getting back what they own, one download at a time. Makes sense