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I'm not sure you'd want to write maths that way. Every WYSIWYG equation editor I've used are very annoying to work with. Displaying equations is a different th

I'm not sure you'd want to write maths that way. Every WYSIWYG equation editor I've used are very annoying to work with. Displaying equations is a different thing and it's supported by many tools. Maxima for example has wxMaxima: https://sourceforge.net/projects/wxmaxima/ https://sourceforge.net/projects/wxmaxima/ I've also been working on a different UI for Maxima: https://peertube.functional.cafe/w/qnx1onPEx9LCtDP3wFqjWz https://peertube.functional.cafe/w/qnx1onPEx9LCtDP3wFqjWz

tgv 4y ago
I sometimes use wxMaxima. For my needs it works perfectly fine. Nice to know there are people working on the interface, because you definitely need to know quite a bit about different functions with similar tasks. Would you know how Mathics compares to Maxima? Mathics' information is pretty sparse.
richardw 4y ago
I’d guess the end state is: tablet, stylus and convert scrawls into print-worthy output. Many pitfalls along the way I’m sure but nothing will beat just drawing what you mean.
anigbrowl 4y ago
Surprised nobody has made an app that lets you photograph/cut & paste formulae from books or web pages, or just write with a stylus. It's the layout with keyboard and mouse that's the stumbling block. There's lots of good options for symbolic logic, numeric analysis etc.
- munch117 4y ago
  You underestimate how hard the problem is. Things that in other fields would be minor typographical differences are often semantically meaningful in traditional math notation. Formula OCR would need to distinguish chi from x, lowercase delta from o with an overbar, a dot-product dot from a dot intended as multiplication, parentheses from brackets, v from the or sign. It needs to be able to determine whether your fraction "a / b / c" (by / I mean horizontal lines) was intended as "a / (b / c)" or "(a / b) / c" from the size of your letters, or from the relative widths of the fraction lines. Of course, anything a human can do, ML can learn to do eventually. Which invites the question: is reading arbitrary hand-written math actually something any human can do?
  - shashasha2 4y ago
    Microsoft Math Solver does a good job at scanning hand drawn equations. Graph and solve simple polynoms
  - hilbert42 4y ago
    It seems to me that few would underestimate how hard the problem is as the difficulty would be obvious to those who develop such software. There are at least two issues here, the first is that there isn't any agreed typographical standard that would make OCR more reliable, and second, there's no consistent or uniform way OCR algorithms are applied. To use your example, the OCR software ought to be able to recognize 'a dot-product dot from a dot intended as multiplication' from its useage context, and where ambiguities or doubts exist the item or aspect of the converted text should be flagged and dropped into an editor that would provide easy access to a choice of selectable options to choose from. In the absence of accurate AI/ML, having ready access to a flexible mathematically-aware editor so as humans can easily make corrections seems an absolute necessity (especially so when OCRed text originates from source material that has not been typeset with OCR in mind). It seems odd that mathematicians and programmers haven't yet agreed on standards and protocols around the OCR of mathematical formulae given that the problem has been with us since the outset OCR.
  - anigbrowl 4y ago
    > You underestimate how hard the problem is. It's hrd, but it's not that hard. Character recognition is half the problem, the other half is context recognition - and there's abundant reference material available. I think we'll see 'copilot for math' aimed at AP/college level users within a few years. It's not something that any human can do, bu something that any human can do with help. The first killer app will be 'I found this formula, please tell me how to read it.' Not in the sense of being a math tutor (although that may come, but simply in the sense of helping students to read it out loud, identify symbols like hats or bars and son so on. Most math books are terrible in this respect because they assume the student already knows all the notation or has someone who can lecture or tutor them about it. This massively inhibits solo learners who can't engage in the practice of 'teaching themselves' by verbally walking through formulae or discussing them fluently, unless they're lucky enough to have found a good reference for notation. If you are not in the latter group, Wikipedia has OK summary articles on notation; and these two books offer variously concise and in-depth tools to built mathematical literacy: https://www.amazon.com/Mathematical-Notation-Guide-Engineers-Scientists/dp/1466230525 https://www.amazon.com/Mathematical-Notation-Guide-Engineers... https://www.amazon.com/Programmers-Introduction-Mathematics-Second/dp/B088N68LTJ/ https://www.amazon.com/Programmers-Introduction-Mathematics-...
- crispyambulance 4y ago
  > Surprised nobody has made an app that lets you photograph/cut & paste formulae from books or web pages, or just write with a stylus... https://mathpix.com/ https://mathpix.com/ I can't vouch for it, but it seems to be trying to do that.
- dagw 4y ago
  There have been lots of apps that have tried to convert hand written math on a tablet. I've personally tried at least 4 or 5 over the last decade or so. None of the really manage to pull it off successfully for anything beyond the most trivial examples.
newaccount74 4y ago
Mathematica had a really nice way of entering equations, once you learned the shortcuts. It's so much nicer to see fractions, matrices and integrals in proper notation, rather than an endless sea of parenthesis. Eg. when you enter a rotation matrix, it's obvious when you make a mistake when you use the graphical editor in Mathematica. It takes a lot more effort to check if ((1,0,0),(0, sin(2pit),cos(2pit)),(0, cos(2pit),-sin(2pit))) is correct.
- smithmayowa 4y ago
  This, so much this, writting nested equations are hell in python and other mathematica alternatives but they are so easy in mathematica.
  - The_suffocated 4y ago
    What is a nested equation?
    - isitmadeofglass 4y ago
      Nesting is the concept of having a thing under another thing. 1+2 will be referred to as a mathematical equation and 1+((((a-b)/3+2/87)-6)23) will be referred to as a nested equation. Of cause this is rather lose semantics since both are expressions or statements and not equations, but that’s how the language is typically used. This is what that looks like in wolfram alpha: https://www.wolframalpha.com/input?i=1%2B%28%28%28%28a-b%29%2F3%2B2%2F87%29-6%29*23%29 https://www.wolframalpha.com/input?i=1%2B%28%28%28%28a-b%29%... It looks the same in Mathematica while your typing it in, which makes I extremely easy to work with, because even very complex equations look exactly like usual in Mathematica instead of ending up looking like lisp implementation of the Fibonacci sequence.
      - MikePlacid 4y ago
        > looking like lisp implementation of the Fibonacci sequence. I wonder if Lisp can benefit from a similar 2d visualization sugar.
isitmadeofglass 4y ago
> I'm not sure you'd want to write maths that way. Every WYSIWYG equation editor I've used are very annoying to work with. Try Marhematica and you’d change your mind. Yes every other tool does it poorly, but Mathematica does it right. It’s fantastic and you miss it everywhere else when you have to leave the Mathematica eco system.
blablabla123 4y ago
Also the actual value of Mathematica or Maple seems to me how good solvers are. E.g. when it comes to Integrals or just solving a non-linear equation. Also most common tasks work good enough. A good/fast UI is also important (like for Maxima, although I miss modern convenience a bit)
TheRealPomax 4y ago
Cool: the fact that I'm asking suggests I do, though. And I absolutely want to see the results in maths, not in programming notation. If I'm solving a complicated bit of maths, I want to see the result and intermediary steps as maths, not as programming code.

tgv 4y ago

I sometimes use wxMaxima. For my needs it works perfectly fine. Nice to know there are people working on the interface, because you definitely need to know quite a bit about different functions with similar tasks. Would you know how Mathics compares to Maxima? Mathics' information is pretty sparse.

richardw 4y ago

I’d guess the end state is: tablet, stylus and convert scrawls into print-worthy output. Many pitfalls along the way I’m sure but nothing will beat just drawing what you mean.

anigbrowl 4y ago

Surprised nobody has made an app that lets you photograph/cut & paste formulae from books or web pages, or just write with a stylus. It's the layout with keyboard and mouse that's the stumbling block. There's lots of good options for symbolic logic, numeric analysis etc.

munch117 4y ago
You underestimate how hard the problem is. Things that in other fields would be minor typographical differences are often semantically meaningful in traditional math notation. Formula OCR would need to distinguish chi from x, lowercase delta from o with an overbar, a dot-product dot from a dot intended as multiplication, parentheses from brackets, v from the or sign. It needs to be able to determine whether your fraction "a / b / c" (by / I mean horizontal lines) was intended as "a / (b / c)" or "(a / b) / c" from the size of your letters, or from the relative widths of the fraction lines. Of course, anything a human can do, ML can learn to do eventually. Which invites the question: is reading arbitrary hand-written math actually something any human can do?
- shashasha2 4y ago
  Microsoft Math Solver does a good job at scanning hand drawn equations. Graph and solve simple polynoms
- hilbert42 4y ago
  It seems to me that few would underestimate how hard the problem is as the difficulty would be obvious to those who develop such software. There are at least two issues here, the first is that there isn't any agreed typographical standard that would make OCR more reliable, and second, there's no consistent or uniform way OCR algorithms are applied. To use your example, the OCR software ought to be able to recognize 'a dot-product dot from a dot intended as multiplication' from its useage context, and where ambiguities or doubts exist the item or aspect of the converted text should be flagged and dropped into an editor that would provide easy access to a choice of selectable options to choose from. In the absence of accurate AI/ML, having ready access to a flexible mathematically-aware editor so as humans can easily make corrections seems an absolute necessity (especially so when OCRed text originates from source material that has not been typeset with OCR in mind). It seems odd that mathematicians and programmers haven't yet agreed on standards and protocols around the OCR of mathematical formulae given that the problem has been with us since the outset OCR.
- anigbrowl 4y ago
  > You underestimate how hard the problem is. It's hrd, but it's not that hard. Character recognition is half the problem, the other half is context recognition - and there's abundant reference material available. I think we'll see 'copilot for math' aimed at AP/college level users within a few years. It's not something that any human can do, bu something that any human can do with help. The first killer app will be 'I found this formula, please tell me how to read it.' Not in the sense of being a math tutor (although that may come, but simply in the sense of helping students to read it out loud, identify symbols like hats or bars and son so on. Most math books are terrible in this respect because they assume the student already knows all the notation or has someone who can lecture or tutor them about it. This massively inhibits solo learners who can't engage in the practice of 'teaching themselves' by verbally walking through formulae or discussing them fluently, unless they're lucky enough to have found a good reference for notation. If you are not in the latter group, Wikipedia has OK summary articles on notation; and these two books offer variously concise and in-depth tools to built mathematical literacy: https://www.amazon.com/Mathematical-Notation-Guide-Engineers-Scientists/dp/1466230525 https://www.amazon.com/Mathematical-Notation-Guide-Engineers... https://www.amazon.com/Programmers-Introduction-Mathematics-Second/dp/B088N68LTJ/ https://www.amazon.com/Programmers-Introduction-Mathematics-...
crispyambulance 4y ago
> Surprised nobody has made an app that lets you photograph/cut & paste formulae from books or web pages, or just write with a stylus... https://mathpix.com/ https://mathpix.com/ I can't vouch for it, but it seems to be trying to do that.
dagw 4y ago
There have been lots of apps that have tried to convert hand written math on a tablet. I've personally tried at least 4 or 5 over the last decade or so. None of the really manage to pull it off successfully for anything beyond the most trivial examples.

newaccount74 4y ago

Mathematica had a really nice way of entering equations, once you learned the shortcuts. It's so much nicer to see fractions, matrices and integrals in proper notation, rather than an endless sea of parenthesis. Eg. when you enter a rotation matrix, it's obvious when you make a mistake when you use the graphical editor in Mathematica. It takes a lot more effort to check if ((1,0,0),(0, sin(2pit),cos(2pit)),(0, cos(2pit),-sin(2pit))) is correct.

smithmayowa 4y ago
This, so much this, writting nested equations are hell in python and other mathematica alternatives but they are so easy in mathematica.
- The_suffocated 4y ago
  What is a nested equation?
  - isitmadeofglass 4y ago
    Nesting is the concept of having a thing under another thing. 1+2 will be referred to as a mathematical equation and 1+((((a-b)/3+2/87)-6)23) will be referred to as a nested equation. Of cause this is rather lose semantics since both are expressions or statements and not equations, but that’s how the language is typically used. This is what that looks like in wolfram alpha: https://www.wolframalpha.com/input?i=1%2B%28%28%28%28a-b%29%2F3%2B2%2F87%29-6%29*23%29 https://www.wolframalpha.com/input?i=1%2B%28%28%28%28a-b%29%... It looks the same in Mathematica while your typing it in, which makes I extremely easy to work with, because even very complex equations look exactly like usual in Mathematica instead of ending up looking like lisp implementation of the Fibonacci sequence.
    - MikePlacid 4y ago
      > looking like lisp implementation of the Fibonacci sequence. I wonder if Lisp can benefit from a similar 2d visualization sugar.

isitmadeofglass 4y ago

> I'm not sure you'd want to write maths that way. Every WYSIWYG equation editor I've used are very annoying to work with. Try Marhematica and you’d change your mind. Yes every other tool does it poorly, but Mathematica does it right. It’s fantastic and you miss it everywhere else when you have to leave the Mathematica eco system.

blablabla123 4y ago

Also the actual value of Mathematica or Maple seems to me how good solvers are. E.g. when it comes to Integrals or just solving a non-linear equation. Also most common tasks work good enough. A good/fast UI is also important (like for Maxima, although I miss modern convenience a bit)

TheRealPomax 4y ago

Cool: the fact that I'm asking suggests I do, though. And I absolutely want to see the results in maths, not in programming notation. If I'm solving a complicated bit of maths, I want to see the result and intermediary steps as maths, not as programming code.