7 ms·

Intel 13th gen seems to outsell Ryzen 7000 everywhere so...

Ptchd 4y ago
I wasn't talking about sales... more about performance and cost (In the end I know that profit is all that matters though...)
- taneq 4y ago
  So if the Intel chip is more expensive and slower, why is everyone buying them? (Not a fanboy and not currently up to speed with where the market is at, just trying to follow the logic.)
  - InvaderFizz 4y ago
    If I were to guess: AMD came out really poorly on motherboard pricing for AM5, 7000 CPUs are market leading in price, availability has been poor. Intel meanwhile has an established year old motherboard pipeline for their current socket that 13th gen can be dropped in to. If this were 14th gen vs Ryzen 7000 the calculus would be different as all the Intel purchases would also include a motherboard. Also, Ryzen 5000 is going gangbusters outselling everything else.
    - davidgay 4y ago
      > Also, Ryzen 5000 is going gangbusters outselling everything else. Which is why they just dropped their prices? (see, e.g., https://forums.anandtech.com/threads/amd-has-dropped-5000-series-cpu-pricing.2608185/ https://forums.anandtech.com/threads/amd-has-dropped-5000-se...)
      - InvaderFizz 4y ago
        Those are official cuts, they've been those prices at retail two weeks. You can see the 5600X price drop on Amazon happened Oct 26[0]. If you look at the Amazon best sellers[1], it gives you a pretty good idea of where things stand. 0: https://camelcamelcamel.com/product/B08166SLDF?context=search https://camelcamelcamel.com/product/B08166SLDF?context=searc... 1: https://www.amazon.com/Best-Sellers-Computer-CPU-Processors/zgbs/pc/229189 https://www.amazon.com/Best-Sellers-Computer-CPU-Processors/...
  - Ptchd 4y ago
    My best guess would be deals made with OEMs, advertising and "monopoly"...
  - deleted 4y ago
    [deleted]
  - c_o_n_v_e_x 4y ago
    There's other considerations at play: - Engineering support when you're designing a new motherboard - CPU SKUs with different use conditions. Intel Industrial rated CPUs are rated for 24/7 operation, 100% duty cycle for 10 years. I'm not aware if AMD has an equivalent. - Long product support - CPU SKUs that are "guaranteed" to be around for X number of years. As as example, some Icelake SKUs are planned to be supported for 10-15 years. Let's use an x-ray scanner as an example. The x-ray scanner mfg needs a computer inside the machine to help process info and display images. The x-ray equipment has an intended lifespan of at least 5 years and they plan to sell/service this equipment for at least 10 years. The mfg wants to use an embedded computer that's going to be commercially available for a long time so they don't have to re-engineer and re-certify their machine. This is one reason why you see some "stickiness" with Intel.
    - AnimalMuppet 4y ago
      IIRC, The FDA (or the EU, or both) requires something like 10 years of support for medical equipment such as x-ray machines. If you want to sell the product for 5 years, then you need 15 years of parts availability.
  - Rury 4y ago
    Because your average person isn't an enthusiast who builds their computer themselves, who knows better, and will necessarily change their buying decisions and habits. Instead most buyers choose whatever is good enough and convenient, or whatever brand they've typically historically trusted, or whatever their peers end up getting, or whatever an advertisement/reviewer/salesmen tells them because they're ignorant and not tech savvy. Then you have reasons associated with vendor lock in. I mean, most people buy DEVICES, not CPUs, and device manufactures are hesitant to switch, because doing so can potentially be complicated and prohibitively costly (especially if they already have deals with their current vendors). Whereas their customers will end up buying their devices regardless of whether they switch CPU vendors or not (because of reasons mentioned above)... Ergo, as other's have already sort of alluded, it's largely because of branding, marketing, and vendor lock in.
- tehnub 4y ago
  Intel 13th gen is cheaper to buy and faster than AMD 7000. Power consumption is higher though, and according to my math with the energy prices in my area, the cost difference would be made up by AMD in about 3 or 4 years given several hours a day of heavy CPU usage.
- bergenty 4y ago
  Who cares about performance per watt? I really care about top end performance.
  - iforgotpassword 4y ago
    Who cares about top end performance? I really care about performance per watt.
    - bergenty 4y ago
      I’d take a V8 over a Camry any day.
      - Ptchd 4y ago
        You could do parallel computing with mutiple CPUs or GPUs.... cars are not comparable.
        bergenty 4y ago
        Sure they are. I’d like to use multiple V8s over multiple Camrys so I can get there faster for the trivial cost of some more electricity.
  - hvis 4y ago
    People using laptops, for instance.
Kukumber 4y ago
performance and TDP, intel do worse than AMD, both GPU and CPUs
monocasa 4y ago
Because it's losing the high margin datacenter battle against Epyc that funds R&D on subsequent gens.
- LegitShady 4y ago
  Intel makes billions of dollars more per year than AMD, and has throughout its whole history. Intel isn't strapped for cash to do R&D, and if they are, AMD is way worse off. Go look at profit numbers for both companies over the last 5 years. It's not even close. To pretend like intel is going to run out of money to fund R&D is just to not even understand what's going on.
  - c_o_n_v_e_x 4y ago
    How Intel and AMD spend R&D is structurally different. AMD is fabless so they only have to focus their R&D exclusively on chip design. Intel has to build foundries, fund manufacturing R&D, as well as chip design. It's a bit ghoulish but Intel's saving grace may be an invasion of Taiwan.
    - LegitShady 4y ago
      On the flipside this is also why Intel is more profitable per chip in the long run - they own their own fabs, the cut AMD pays to TSMC to make their chips (cost, profit, and research/overhead) stays with intel. And intel is somehow still making chips with near performance parity to AMD several nodes behind on 10nm+++ - when intel catches up they will again kick AMD on multiple levels. Intel is in a good place. The question people should be asking is why its so close at all if AMD is several nodes ahead. why is 5nm and 6nm TSMC only competitive with intel and not crushing it? Their performance per watt at high load (and not at idle) is AMDs biggest differentiator. When intel goes to smaller nodes they'll gain more thermal headroom to pack more and faster cores than AMD. The current modern tech youtubers are asking many of the wrong questions. I watched gamersnexus crowing about AMD efficiency in the highest tier chips and asked "people buying race cars care about speed more than efficiency - why are you downplaying intel's ultrafast chips on 10nm+++ vs amd's smaller and more efficient nodes, and talking about their fuel mileage for a market segment differentiated by performance?" Theres a lot of nonsense going around.
tinglymintyfrsh 4y ago
- PartiallyTyped 4y ago
  What's the probability that they know something that you don't, or have different priorities? I'd go to about 1.
bitL 4y ago
5800X3D seems to vastly outsell both...

I wasn't talking about sales... more about performance and cost (In the end I know that profit is all that matters though...)

taneq 4y ago
So if the Intel chip is more expensive and slower, why is everyone buying them? (Not a fanboy and not currently up to speed with where the market is at, just trying to follow the logic.)
- InvaderFizz 4y ago
  If I were to guess: AMD came out really poorly on motherboard pricing for AM5, 7000 CPUs are market leading in price, availability has been poor. Intel meanwhile has an established year old motherboard pipeline for their current socket that 13th gen can be dropped in to. If this were 14th gen vs Ryzen 7000 the calculus would be different as all the Intel purchases would also include a motherboard. Also, Ryzen 5000 is going gangbusters outselling everything else.
  - davidgay 4y ago
    > Also, Ryzen 5000 is going gangbusters outselling everything else. Which is why they just dropped their prices? (see, e.g., https://forums.anandtech.com/threads/amd-has-dropped-5000-series-cpu-pricing.2608185/ https://forums.anandtech.com/threads/amd-has-dropped-5000-se...)
    - InvaderFizz 4y ago
      Those are official cuts, they've been those prices at retail two weeks. You can see the 5600X price drop on Amazon happened Oct 26[0]. If you look at the Amazon best sellers[1], it gives you a pretty good idea of where things stand. 0: https://camelcamelcamel.com/product/B08166SLDF?context=search https://camelcamelcamel.com/product/B08166SLDF?context=searc... 1: https://www.amazon.com/Best-Sellers-Computer-CPU-Processors/zgbs/pc/229189 https://www.amazon.com/Best-Sellers-Computer-CPU-Processors/...
- Ptchd 4y ago
  My best guess would be deals made with OEMs, advertising and "monopoly"...
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]
- c_o_n_v_e_x 4y ago
  There's other considerations at play: - Engineering support when you're designing a new motherboard - CPU SKUs with different use conditions. Intel Industrial rated CPUs are rated for 24/7 operation, 100% duty cycle for 10 years. I'm not aware if AMD has an equivalent. - Long product support - CPU SKUs that are "guaranteed" to be around for X number of years. As as example, some Icelake SKUs are planned to be supported for 10-15 years. Let's use an x-ray scanner as an example. The x-ray scanner mfg needs a computer inside the machine to help process info and display images. The x-ray equipment has an intended lifespan of at least 5 years and they plan to sell/service this equipment for at least 10 years. The mfg wants to use an embedded computer that's going to be commercially available for a long time so they don't have to re-engineer and re-certify their machine. This is one reason why you see some "stickiness" with Intel.
  - AnimalMuppet 4y ago
    IIRC, The FDA (or the EU, or both) requires something like 10 years of support for medical equipment such as x-ray machines. If you want to sell the product for 5 years, then you need 15 years of parts availability.
- Rury 4y ago
  Because your average person isn't an enthusiast who builds their computer themselves, who knows better, and will necessarily change their buying decisions and habits. Instead most buyers choose whatever is good enough and convenient, or whatever brand they've typically historically trusted, or whatever their peers end up getting, or whatever an advertisement/reviewer/salesmen tells them because they're ignorant and not tech savvy. Then you have reasons associated with vendor lock in. I mean, most people buy DEVICES, not CPUs, and device manufactures are hesitant to switch, because doing so can potentially be complicated and prohibitively costly (especially if they already have deals with their current vendors). Whereas their customers will end up buying their devices regardless of whether they switch CPU vendors or not (because of reasons mentioned above)... Ergo, as other's have already sort of alluded, it's largely because of branding, marketing, and vendor lock in.
tehnub 4y ago
Intel 13th gen is cheaper to buy and faster than AMD 7000. Power consumption is higher though, and according to my math with the energy prices in my area, the cost difference would be made up by AMD in about 3 or 4 years given several hours a day of heavy CPU usage.
bergenty 4y ago
Who cares about performance per watt? I really care about top end performance.
- iforgotpassword 4y ago
  Who cares about top end performance? I really care about performance per watt.
  - bergenty 4y ago
    I’d take a V8 over a Camry any day.
    - Ptchd 4y ago
      You could do parallel computing with mutiple CPUs or GPUs.... cars are not comparable.
      - bergenty 4y ago
        Sure they are. I’d like to use multiple V8s over multiple Camrys so I can get there faster for the trivial cost of some more electricity.
- hvis 4y ago
  People using laptops, for instance.

Kukumber 4y ago

performance and TDP, intel do worse than AMD, both GPU and CPUs

monocasa 4y ago

Because it's losing the high margin datacenter battle against Epyc that funds R&D on subsequent gens.

LegitShady 4y ago
Intel makes billions of dollars more per year than AMD, and has throughout its whole history. Intel isn't strapped for cash to do R&D, and if they are, AMD is way worse off. Go look at profit numbers for both companies over the last 5 years. It's not even close. To pretend like intel is going to run out of money to fund R&D is just to not even understand what's going on.
- c_o_n_v_e_x 4y ago
  How Intel and AMD spend R&D is structurally different. AMD is fabless so they only have to focus their R&D exclusively on chip design. Intel has to build foundries, fund manufacturing R&D, as well as chip design. It's a bit ghoulish but Intel's saving grace may be an invasion of Taiwan.
  - LegitShady 4y ago
    On the flipside this is also why Intel is more profitable per chip in the long run - they own their own fabs, the cut AMD pays to TSMC to make their chips (cost, profit, and research/overhead) stays with intel. And intel is somehow still making chips with near performance parity to AMD several nodes behind on 10nm+++ - when intel catches up they will again kick AMD on multiple levels. Intel is in a good place. The question people should be asking is why its so close at all if AMD is several nodes ahead. why is 5nm and 6nm TSMC only competitive with intel and not crushing it? Their performance per watt at high load (and not at idle) is AMDs biggest differentiator. When intel goes to smaller nodes they'll gain more thermal headroom to pack more and faster cores than AMD. The current modern tech youtubers are asking many of the wrong questions. I watched gamersnexus crowing about AMD efficiency in the highest tier chips and asked "people buying race cars care about speed more than efficiency - why are you downplaying intel's ultrafast chips on 10nm+++ vs amd's smaller and more efficient nodes, and talking about their fuel mileage for a market segment differentiated by performance?" Theres a lot of nonsense going around.

tinglymintyfrsh 4y ago

PartiallyTyped 4y ago
What's the probability that they know something that you don't, or have different priorities? I'd go to about 1.

bitL 4y ago

5800X3D seems to vastly outsell both...