3 ms·

agreed re: Forstall, but the guy clearly did an amazing job hardware-wise... don't know anything about him personally, but he must be pretty god damn competent.

pcurve 4y ago
I wonder if they should bring him back. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zw4RrcPxBIk https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zw4RrcPxBIk Though Cook had his reasons for firing. https://www.businessinsider.com/tim-cook-why-i-fired-scott-forstall-2012-12 https://www.businessinsider.com/tim-cook-why-i-fired-scott-f... Clearly, Forestall was a bit of a dick. But I wonder if CEO should also be able to harness diversity in personality and style.
- Apocryphon 4y ago
  Hey, it worked when they brought back Jobs!
- olliej 4y ago
  There’s a difference between harnessing diversity of personality and empowering an asshole. If someone’s personality is “being a dick to people” and you have a choice for someone similarly talented who isn’t a dick to other people, what benefit is the personality trait of “is a dick”? People have this obsession with the idea that people are successful because of their being a dick rather than in spite of it, and there is not evidence that being an asshole is the cause of success. There is plenty of evidence showing the damage it can cause.
  - pencilguin 4y ago
    We can compare to Bunnie Huang and Jim Keller, both of whom get important, difficult things done and are far on the other side.
xyzzy_plugh 4y ago
I've had friends work for him and they described him as a hard driving, awful tyrant and generally an asshole. He's clearly intelligent but his personality seems like a bit of a tire fire. The Forstall thing makes more sense in that context, at least to me.
- Apocryphon 4y ago
  I wonder if Fadell is similar in his own way, from what it sounds like, Nest was a very top-down, stringent environment, which is why it didn't play well with the more open and casual Google after acquisition.
  - xyzzy_plugh 4y ago
    Ah I was referring to Fadell but I understand the ambiguity now.
    - Apocryphon 4y ago
      Ah. Then that proves my suspicions about Nest. I wonder how Forstall is as a leader, then.
- diffxx 4y ago
  I think it may also depend on your role in the company. I knew someone who worked in marketing at Nest both before and after Fadell's departure. We met a little bit after he'd left and they were struggling a bit because they had essentially felt that they just needed to tailor their work to his taste and it didn't really matter what anyone else thought. Things got harder without that strong personality at the top and more people to please (with arguably worse taste). They were perhaps just short of a true believer, but they did have a lot of respect for him. On the other hand, it didn't seem like he drove the marketing team nearly as hard as the engineers. The media reports that followed his departure described something bordering on a reign of terror that my friend didn't exactly deny but didn't seem to have been subjected to directly.
- smugma 4y ago

pcurve 4y ago

I wonder if they should bring him back. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zw4RrcPxBIk https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zw4RrcPxBIk Though Cook had his reasons for firing. https://www.businessinsider.com/tim-cook-why-i-fired-scott-forstall-2012-12 https://www.businessinsider.com/tim-cook-why-i-fired-scott-f... Clearly, Forestall was a bit of a dick. But I wonder if CEO should also be able to harness diversity in personality and style.

Apocryphon 4y ago
Hey, it worked when they brought back Jobs!
olliej 4y ago
There’s a difference between harnessing diversity of personality and empowering an asshole. If someone’s personality is “being a dick to people” and you have a choice for someone similarly talented who isn’t a dick to other people, what benefit is the personality trait of “is a dick”? People have this obsession with the idea that people are successful because of their being a dick rather than in spite of it, and there is not evidence that being an asshole is the cause of success. There is plenty of evidence showing the damage it can cause.
- pencilguin 4y ago
  We can compare to Bunnie Huang and Jim Keller, both of whom get important, difficult things done and are far on the other side.

xyzzy_plugh 4y ago

I've had friends work for him and they described him as a hard driving, awful tyrant and generally an asshole. He's clearly intelligent but his personality seems like a bit of a tire fire. The Forstall thing makes more sense in that context, at least to me.

Apocryphon 4y ago
I wonder if Fadell is similar in his own way, from what it sounds like, Nest was a very top-down, stringent environment, which is why it didn't play well with the more open and casual Google after acquisition.
- xyzzy_plugh 4y ago
  Ah I was referring to Fadell but I understand the ambiguity now.
  - Apocryphon 4y ago
    Ah. Then that proves my suspicions about Nest. I wonder how Forstall is as a leader, then.
diffxx 4y ago
I think it may also depend on your role in the company. I knew someone who worked in marketing at Nest both before and after Fadell's departure. We met a little bit after he'd left and they were struggling a bit because they had essentially felt that they just needed to tailor their work to his taste and it didn't really matter what anyone else thought. Things got harder without that strong personality at the top and more people to please (with arguably worse taste). They were perhaps just short of a true believer, but they did have a lot of respect for him. On the other hand, it didn't seem like he drove the marketing team nearly as hard as the engineers. The media reports that followed his departure described something bordering on a reign of terror that my friend didn't exactly deny but didn't seem to have been subjected to directly.
smugma 4y ago