4 ms·

According to Yoel Roth, the Trust & Safety organization within Twitter was mostly unaffected by these layoffs. The team size was reduced by just 15%[1] and the

According to Yoel Roth, the Trust & Safety organization within Twitter was mostly unaffected by these layoffs. The team size was reduced by just 15%[1] and the amount of moderation activity is largely unchanged[2]. Roth says that their "efforts on election integrity – including harmful misinformation that can suppress the vote and combatting state-backed information operations – remain a top priority." [3] [1] https://twitter.com/yoyoel/status/1588657228462317568 https://twitter.com/yoyoel/status/1588657228462317568 [2] https://twitter.com/yoyoel/status/1588657230836305920 https://twitter.com/yoyoel/status/1588657230836305920 [3] https://twitter.com/yoyoel/status/1588657232279130112 https://twitter.com/yoyoel/status/1588657232279130112

justapassenger 4y ago
Calling 15% layoff something not affecting an org is only a somewhat honest statement if compared with a bonkers 50% layoffs across the company.
- Natsu 4y ago
  I dunno, they're obviously still engaged and working. I mean, this article is just a few positions down on the HN frontpage: https://www.politico.com/news/2022/11/02/white-house-twitter-context-note-00064647 https://www.politico.com/news/2022/11/02/white-house-twitter...
- rogerkirkness 4y ago
  More than 15% of time in big ops orgs goes to hiring so if they aren't hiring they don't need all that slack in the system to be able to do the same work output.
  - justapassenger 4y ago
    If your estimate is correct - they haven’t been hiring for a while, while experiencing normal attrition.
- waynesonfire 4y ago
  was it the guy that checkout out three years ago and two managers?
- TheRealDunkirk 4y ago
  But is it "gutting?" No. And companies very frequently cut 10-15%, just to shore up the bottom line, to prepare for a bad quarter. I work for a company that is FAMOUS for binge-and-purge hiring practices. They shed that every couple of years, and have for three decades.
  - simondotau 4y ago
    That's a great way of ensuring your company has a very high proportion of resilient cockroaches.
    - TheRealDunkirk 4y ago
      And I would stipulate to that.
mjfl 4y ago
Very good. We wouldn't want to go an election without the assistance of a Ministry of Truth.
- Quillbert182 4y ago
  Don’t you mean… doubleplusgood?
- taurath 4y ago
  This is hyperbolic in the extreme - the only things I've seen on the election information is tagging conspiracy theories for which there is no evidence, or noting that videos going viral are faked. Every time I see people advocate for less moderation its really freedom to lie through their damn teeth.
  - MilnerRoute 4y ago
    The Post's article acknowledges Roth's tweet -- but that "Trust & Safety organization" seems like a different organization than the election information team that "has worked for years to counter election-related falsehoods." "As recently as two weeks ago, Twitter was touting the team’s debunking efforts as a key aspect of its approach to the 2022 midterms. But on Friday, multiple Twitter employees told The Washington Post the entire team appeared to have been cut amid Musk’s layoffs."
  - hnfong 4y ago
    > Every time I see people advocate for less moderation its really freedom to lie through their damn teeth. The freedom to publish statements that the establishment (aka Ministry of Truth) deems as false. It's also called lying. You might think it's obvious what's true and false, but if that's the case you clearly haven't done enough philosophy...
    - taurath 4y ago
      I think it is objectively obvious, most of the time, when a video is doctored or a false statement is presented as fact. I'd rather not live in a place where absolutely nothing is real. Societies crumble under such a culture. Birds are considered real only because its not politically advantageous to believe they aren't real. What a dumb fucking value system to live under.
throw2022110401 4y ago
From the linked thread: > Most of the 2,000+ content moderators working on front-line review were not impacted, and access will be fully restored in the coming days. An implication here is that engineering was hit that much harder. (Assuming that "most of" doesn't mean "50% + 1")
MAGZine 4y ago
Did you RTFA? Roth was directly quoted by the post. > In October 2020, ahead of the U.S. presidential election, the team added context to all trends that could be found in Twitter’s prime real estate — its “For you” and “What’s happening” boxes — on its app and website. As recently as two weeks ago, Twitter was touting the team’s debunking efforts as a key aspect of its approach to the 2022 midterms. > But on Friday, multiple Twitter employees told The Washington Post the entire team appeared to have been cut amid Musk’s layoffs. It's hard to know where exactly the cuts were made inside of the trust and safety org, and even how twitter is laid out internally to know whether (or how) if trust and safety intersects with departments paying attention to information ops. anecdotally, i've seen at least a few people working in those areas laid off.
- simondotau 4y ago
  At this moment I see no reason to consider The Washington Post a more credible source than a Twitter employee whose name is known.
  - MAGZine 4y ago
    I'm not sure what point you're making. The whole point in either case is that what is being reported is accurate and verified. I think Twitter moderation these days is pretty transparent and fact-based when they take action.
    - simondotau 4y ago
      The point I'm making is to question whether we should take the Washington Post article more seriously than direct statements from named employees. The article is making assertions based on claims made by anonymous people who claim to be Twitter employees, and that either through malice or stupidity or "telephone" style information loss, there are countless ways that this article can end up being wrong. And precisely to your earlier point, the article encourages the reader to fill in the blanks about what various departments existed, what their roles are, whether they have direct, indirect, or no effects on the material on Twitter. There is nothing accurate nor verified about any of that. It's all intentionally hazy, and contributes to the article's overt desire to push a specific narrative rather than provide clarity.

justapassenger 4y ago

Calling 15% layoff something not affecting an org is only a somewhat honest statement if compared with a bonkers 50% layoffs across the company.

Natsu 4y ago
I dunno, they're obviously still engaged and working. I mean, this article is just a few positions down on the HN frontpage: https://www.politico.com/news/2022/11/02/white-house-twitter-context-note-00064647 https://www.politico.com/news/2022/11/02/white-house-twitter...
rogerkirkness 4y ago
More than 15% of time in big ops orgs goes to hiring so if they aren't hiring they don't need all that slack in the system to be able to do the same work output.
- justapassenger 4y ago
  If your estimate is correct - they haven’t been hiring for a while, while experiencing normal attrition.
waynesonfire 4y ago
was it the guy that checkout out three years ago and two managers?
TheRealDunkirk 4y ago
But is it "gutting?" No. And companies very frequently cut 10-15%, just to shore up the bottom line, to prepare for a bad quarter. I work for a company that is FAMOUS for binge-and-purge hiring practices. They shed that every couple of years, and have for three decades.
- simondotau 4y ago
  That's a great way of ensuring your company has a very high proportion of resilient cockroaches.
  - TheRealDunkirk 4y ago
    And I would stipulate to that.

mjfl 4y ago

Very good. We wouldn't want to go an election without the assistance of a Ministry of Truth.

Quillbert182 4y ago
Don’t you mean… doubleplusgood?
taurath 4y ago
This is hyperbolic in the extreme - the only things I've seen on the election information is tagging conspiracy theories for which there is no evidence, or noting that videos going viral are faked. Every time I see people advocate for less moderation its really freedom to lie through their damn teeth.
- MilnerRoute 4y ago
  The Post's article acknowledges Roth's tweet -- but that "Trust & Safety organization" seems like a different organization than the election information team that "has worked for years to counter election-related falsehoods." "As recently as two weeks ago, Twitter was touting the team’s debunking efforts as a key aspect of its approach to the 2022 midterms. But on Friday, multiple Twitter employees told The Washington Post the entire team appeared to have been cut amid Musk’s layoffs."
- hnfong 4y ago
  > Every time I see people advocate for less moderation its really freedom to lie through their damn teeth. The freedom to publish statements that the establishment (aka Ministry of Truth) deems as false. It's also called lying. You might think it's obvious what's true and false, but if that's the case you clearly haven't done enough philosophy...
  - taurath 4y ago
    I think it is objectively obvious, most of the time, when a video is doctored or a false statement is presented as fact. I'd rather not live in a place where absolutely nothing is real. Societies crumble under such a culture. Birds are considered real only because its not politically advantageous to believe they aren't real. What a dumb fucking value system to live under.

throw2022110401 4y ago

From the linked thread: > Most of the 2,000+ content moderators working on front-line review were not impacted, and access will be fully restored in the coming days. An implication here is that engineering was hit that much harder. (Assuming that "most of" doesn't mean "50% + 1")

MAGZine 4y ago

Did you RTFA? Roth was directly quoted by the post. > In October 2020, ahead of the U.S. presidential election, the team added context to all trends that could be found in Twitter’s prime real estate — its “For you” and “What’s happening” boxes — on its app and website. As recently as two weeks ago, Twitter was touting the team’s debunking efforts as a key aspect of its approach to the 2022 midterms. > But on Friday, multiple Twitter employees told The Washington Post the entire team appeared to have been cut amid Musk’s layoffs. It's hard to know where exactly the cuts were made inside of the trust and safety org, and even how twitter is laid out internally to know whether (or how) if trust and safety intersects with departments paying attention to information ops. anecdotally, i've seen at least a few people working in those areas laid off.

simondotau 4y ago
At this moment I see no reason to consider The Washington Post a more credible source than a Twitter employee whose name is known.
- MAGZine 4y ago
  I'm not sure what point you're making. The whole point in either case is that what is being reported is accurate and verified. I think Twitter moderation these days is pretty transparent and fact-based when they take action.
  - simondotau 4y ago
    The point I'm making is to question whether we should take the Washington Post article more seriously than direct statements from named employees. The article is making assertions based on claims made by anonymous people who claim to be Twitter employees, and that either through malice or stupidity or "telephone" style information loss, there are countless ways that this article can end up being wrong. And precisely to your earlier point, the article encourages the reader to fill in the blanks about what various departments existed, what their roles are, whether they have direct, indirect, or no effects on the material on Twitter. There is nothing accurate nor verified about any of that. It's all intentionally hazy, and contributes to the article's overt desire to push a specific narrative rather than provide clarity.