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There's a big difference between these and training chopsticks, which is that training chopsticks have an undeserved childish association with them. No need to

There's a big difference between these and training chopsticks, which is that training chopsticks have an undeserved childish association with them. No need to try to add that association to this entirely different utensil. > If you find yourself using them a lot, you'll find it easier and more satisfying to use actual chopsticks Personally, I can use chopsticks just fine, but there's no way it's "easier" to use chopsticks than pincers. It might be more satisfying to master chopsticks, but I don't think most people are interested in mastering their salad fork and feeling satisfaction, we hopefully make decisions based on effectiveness. The author was saying, "hey, let's drop the historical baggage and just use the more effective tool when we see it."

deleted 4y ago
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jacobolus 4y ago
> no way it's "easier" to use chopsticks than pincers Once you are practiced, yes it is easier. Chopsticks are a more effective and more versatile tool, assuming you can use them fluently. But you are right that it takes significant practice to achieve fluency. Similar to riding a bike, hand writing, knitting, swimming, playing a musical instrument, controlling a puppet, or any other complex new physical skill. > don't think most people are interested in mastering their salad fork and feeling satisfaction A salad fork is an effective but low-skill tool which does not require much practice. An adult can “master” the salad fork in a matter of minutes.
- WastingMyTime89 4y ago
  Forks are not that easy to use actually. It’s probably fine with salads which is a fairly large and easy to stick piece of food but if you have ever seen someone with tremors try to use one it quickly gets obvious that forks require a lot of fine motor skills to be used properly.
  - cco 4y ago
    I believe the comparison was relative to the scale of eating utensils; forks being far lower on the skill curve relative to chop sticks . If you have tremors, a fork will be easier than chop sticks for instance. A spoon perhaps easier still.
- moate 4y ago
  >> Once you are practiced, yes it is easier. Chopsticks are a more effective and more versatile tool, assuming you can use them fluently. “Versatile” =/= “easier”. My mother-in-law with arthritis and no familiarity with chopsticks would disagree with you that it’s easier for her, today, to pick up a sweet pea with chopsticks vs those pincers. I would assume that if you presented people unfamiliar with eating using both implements a meal, the pincers would be selected more often. That’s what most people mean by “easy”- simpler and more intuitive.
  - ackfoobar 4y ago
    What is easier? 100km on foot or 100km on a bicycle? Almost all people already know how to walk and run, it's simpler and more intuitive. But I bet if you know how to ride a bike, you'll pick the bike.
  - jacobolus 4y ago
    > My mother-in-law with arthritis and no familiarity with chopsticks ... Can you see how this does not disagree with “assuming you can use them fluently”?
    - moate 4y ago
      Anything you can already easily do is easy. You are correct. It’s a pointless statement, which is my point, but it is correct.
      - jacobolus 4y ago
        For someone who is fluent, an “easier” learner’s tool is often more cumbersome and less pleasant to use than the original tool. For example, instead of learning to use general-purpose kitchen knives you could buy a bunch of specialized kitchen gadgets: scallion-cutting scissors, a garlic peeler, a garlic dicer, an asparagus peeler, a strawberry stem remover, a bell pepper seed remover, a tomato slicer, a bread guillotine, an egg slicer, a banana slicer, etc. (these are real devices, not jokes). For a total novice or someone with a severe disability, these might be “easier” than just using a knife or two for the same job. But for someone who is fluent with 2–3 basic knives, these jobs are all faster, easier, and more effective to do with a knife than with the purpose-built tool; each gadget also has very limited utility and wastes space when not in use. Can you see how the unqualified statement “a banana slicer is easier to use than a chef’s knife” could also be considered misleading?
- kodah 4y ago
  Not to give the fork too much credit, but a lot of people don't even hold them correctly. I've watched peoples food dance across plates because of this. Also +1 to the other folks mentioning people with disabilities/arthritis. My dad was in a rehab home for a bit and there were a lot of people who had to have their food served precut.

deleted 4y ago

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jacobolus 4y ago

> no way it's "easier" to use chopsticks than pincers Once you are practiced, yes it is easier. Chopsticks are a more effective and more versatile tool, assuming you can use them fluently. But you are right that it takes significant practice to achieve fluency. Similar to riding a bike, hand writing, knitting, swimming, playing a musical instrument, controlling a puppet, or any other complex new physical skill. > don't think most people are interested in mastering their salad fork and feeling satisfaction A salad fork is an effective but low-skill tool which does not require much practice. An adult can “master” the salad fork in a matter of minutes.

WastingMyTime89 4y ago
Forks are not that easy to use actually. It’s probably fine with salads which is a fairly large and easy to stick piece of food but if you have ever seen someone with tremors try to use one it quickly gets obvious that forks require a lot of fine motor skills to be used properly.
- cco 4y ago
  I believe the comparison was relative to the scale of eating utensils; forks being far lower on the skill curve relative to chop sticks . If you have tremors, a fork will be easier than chop sticks for instance. A spoon perhaps easier still.
moate 4y ago
>> Once you are practiced, yes it is easier. Chopsticks are a more effective and more versatile tool, assuming you can use them fluently. “Versatile” =/= “easier”. My mother-in-law with arthritis and no familiarity with chopsticks would disagree with you that it’s easier for her, today, to pick up a sweet pea with chopsticks vs those pincers. I would assume that if you presented people unfamiliar with eating using both implements a meal, the pincers would be selected more often. That’s what most people mean by “easy”- simpler and more intuitive.
- ackfoobar 4y ago
  What is easier? 100km on foot or 100km on a bicycle? Almost all people already know how to walk and run, it's simpler and more intuitive. But I bet if you know how to ride a bike, you'll pick the bike.
- jacobolus 4y ago
  > My mother-in-law with arthritis and no familiarity with chopsticks ... Can you see how this does not disagree with “assuming you can use them fluently”?
  - moate 4y ago
    Anything you can already easily do is easy. You are correct. It’s a pointless statement, which is my point, but it is correct.
    - jacobolus 4y ago
      For someone who is fluent, an “easier” learner’s tool is often more cumbersome and less pleasant to use than the original tool. For example, instead of learning to use general-purpose kitchen knives you could buy a bunch of specialized kitchen gadgets: scallion-cutting scissors, a garlic peeler, a garlic dicer, an asparagus peeler, a strawberry stem remover, a bell pepper seed remover, a tomato slicer, a bread guillotine, an egg slicer, a banana slicer, etc. (these are real devices, not jokes). For a total novice or someone with a severe disability, these might be “easier” than just using a knife or two for the same job. But for someone who is fluent with 2–3 basic knives, these jobs are all faster, easier, and more effective to do with a knife than with the purpose-built tool; each gadget also has very limited utility and wastes space when not in use. Can you see how the unqualified statement “a banana slicer is easier to use than a chef’s knife” could also be considered misleading?
kodah 4y ago
Not to give the fork too much credit, but a lot of people don't even hold them correctly. I've watched peoples food dance across plates because of this. Also +1 to the other folks mentioning people with disabilities/arthritis. My dad was in a rehab home for a bit and there were a lot of people who had to have their food served precut.