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Can't you just say the same thing about the fiat currency that you say Apple's holding? It could also "go to zero". And certain "tokens".. specifically, let's s

Can't you just say the same thing about the fiat currency that you say Apple's holding? It could also "go to zero". And certain "tokens".. specifically, let's say something like Bitcoin or Monero, actually do have what you would call "intrinsic" value since they require the expenditure of actual, physical energy to obtain, unless you know of a viable attack on those proof of work systems that you're not telling us about.

spamizbad 4y ago
I don’t think you can. Apple owns real estate, intellectual property, and tons of tangible physical assets. The market is not going to decide Apple’s patents are worthless, California Real Estate is worthless, their factories and manufacturing equipment is worthless until there’s some world-ending cataclysm.
- actionablefiber 4y ago
  > The market is not going to decide Apple’s patents are worthless, California Real Estate is worthless, their factories and manufacturing equipment is worthless until there’s some world-ending cataclysm. I'm not sure why you think there has to be a world-ending cataclysm for this to happen? If there were any major change in the way societies or economies were organized, Apple the entity could cease to exist entirely, or some/all of its assets could cease to belong to them. Like for patents, it certainly seems like the world is very far from deciding to abolish IP, but if society wills it, it is very simple to do.
  - GauntletWizard 4y ago
    Apocalyptic events like that are rare. Sudden rapid divestment from Apple is unlikely.
  - KptMarchewa 4y ago
    That's literally the definition of an catastrophic event
  - dreamcompiler 4y ago
    It could happen, in the same sense that a planet-killing asteroid could strike the Earth tomorrow. By contrast the sudden demise of all crypto value could also happen, in the same sense that tomorrow might be cloudy.
    - actionablefiber 4y ago
      My real point here is poking fun at how, as has been observed in the past, "it is easier to imagine the end of the world than the end of capitalism." People are talking about world-ending cataclysms when the much more mundane "downfall of an economic order and rise of a different one" is a possibility too.
  - LordDragonfang 4y ago
    I think it's reasonable to say that "any major change in the way societies or economies were organized" which resulted in all of Apple's assets going to zero, including the US Dollar, would qualify as the end of the World As We Know It, and would be effectively cataclysmic in magnitude as far as its effects on society. ...Whereas blockchain assets going to zero doesn't even register as a blip to the average citizen.
  - dredmorbius 4y ago
    The requirements for a major sudden loss of value in Apple would likely involve a loss of value in a vast number of other presently high-intrinsic-value assets: real estate, the entire tech sector, the US and global economy, etc., etc. Devaluation of cryptocurrency assets, on the other hand, could come about from someone sneezing. Or other events which would have similarly little impact on any asset valuations outside the crypto bubble itself.
  - nl 4y ago
    The market's view of the likelihood of Apple disappearing via the things you suggested is priced in by people choosing to hold things like gold, NZ property to escape to or I guess guns and bunkers.
- blueprint 4y ago
  no we were talking about the 'cash' they hold. I dont get why you're bringing such tangential things into the discussion. what guarantees the value of USD is (a) its current adoption and (b) the fact the US stands behind it and will police and secure its usage. how is that different from a proof of work, asic resistant cryptocurrency?
eropple 4y ago
Apple does have worth beyond it's stocks because it owns stuff. The chairs in Apple's offices are worth more than some very profitable small businesses, let alone their current working inventory of devices or the parts to make more or the IP that they've generated to make them, or or or ad infinitum. Cryptocurrencies are a null term. There's no there there.
- TedDoesntTalk 4y ago
  > chairs in Apple's offices I’d have mentioned their real estate holdings (offices, etc). Office chairs don’t have a big resale value but real estate often does.
  - eropple 4y ago
    That's kind of my point. ;)
  - giantrobot 4y ago
    They have tens of thousands of chairs in Apple Park alone. Even if every chair went for $50, Apple could net hundreds of thousands of dollars. There's plenty of small businesses that would kill to net hundreds of thousands of dollars.
  - jazzyjackson 4y ago
    > Office chairs don’t have a big resale value Check out ebay auctions for Herman Miller Aeron, they're still worth something !
- blueprint 4y ago
  we weren't talking about the value of apple's stock or its property aside from the cash it holds on hand. did you just not read what i wrote? the considerable number of downvoters must have made the same mistake as you i guess. the question is whether fiat cash is any more real than cryptocurrencies. and as for them being a null term, you have no clue what you're talking about or you're intentionally trolling. please don't reply to me.
School-Cotton 4y ago
> actually do have what you would call "intrinsic" value I just spent all day digging a hole in my backyard for no reason. Does it have intrinsic value?

spamizbad 4y ago

I don’t think you can. Apple owns real estate, intellectual property, and tons of tangible physical assets. The market is not going to decide Apple’s patents are worthless, California Real Estate is worthless, their factories and manufacturing equipment is worthless until there’s some world-ending cataclysm.

actionablefiber 4y ago
> The market is not going to decide Apple’s patents are worthless, California Real Estate is worthless, their factories and manufacturing equipment is worthless until there’s some world-ending cataclysm. I'm not sure why you think there has to be a world-ending cataclysm for this to happen? If there were any major change in the way societies or economies were organized, Apple the entity could cease to exist entirely, or some/all of its assets could cease to belong to them. Like for patents, it certainly seems like the world is very far from deciding to abolish IP, but if society wills it, it is very simple to do.
- GauntletWizard 4y ago
  Apocalyptic events like that are rare. Sudden rapid divestment from Apple is unlikely.
- KptMarchewa 4y ago
  That's literally the definition of an catastrophic event
- dreamcompiler 4y ago
  It could happen, in the same sense that a planet-killing asteroid could strike the Earth tomorrow. By contrast the sudden demise of all crypto value could also happen, in the same sense that tomorrow might be cloudy.
  - actionablefiber 4y ago
    My real point here is poking fun at how, as has been observed in the past, "it is easier to imagine the end of the world than the end of capitalism." People are talking about world-ending cataclysms when the much more mundane "downfall of an economic order and rise of a different one" is a possibility too.
- LordDragonfang 4y ago
  I think it's reasonable to say that "any major change in the way societies or economies were organized" which resulted in all of Apple's assets going to zero, including the US Dollar, would qualify as the end of the World As We Know It, and would be effectively cataclysmic in magnitude as far as its effects on society. ...Whereas blockchain assets going to zero doesn't even register as a blip to the average citizen.
- dredmorbius 4y ago
  The requirements for a major sudden loss of value in Apple would likely involve a loss of value in a vast number of other presently high-intrinsic-value assets: real estate, the entire tech sector, the US and global economy, etc., etc. Devaluation of cryptocurrency assets, on the other hand, could come about from someone sneezing. Or other events which would have similarly little impact on any asset valuations outside the crypto bubble itself.
- nl 4y ago
  The market's view of the likelihood of Apple disappearing via the things you suggested is priced in by people choosing to hold things like gold, NZ property to escape to or I guess guns and bunkers.
blueprint 4y ago
no we were talking about the 'cash' they hold. I dont get why you're bringing such tangential things into the discussion. what guarantees the value of USD is (a) its current adoption and (b) the fact the US stands behind it and will police and secure its usage. how is that different from a proof of work, asic resistant cryptocurrency?

eropple 4y ago

Apple does have worth beyond it's stocks because it owns stuff. The chairs in Apple's offices are worth more than some very profitable small businesses, let alone their current working inventory of devices or the parts to make more or the IP that they've generated to make them, or or or ad infinitum. Cryptocurrencies are a null term. There's no there there.

TedDoesntTalk 4y ago
> chairs in Apple's offices I’d have mentioned their real estate holdings (offices, etc). Office chairs don’t have a big resale value but real estate often does.
- eropple 4y ago
  That's kind of my point. ;)
- giantrobot 4y ago
  They have tens of thousands of chairs in Apple Park alone. Even if every chair went for $50, Apple could net hundreds of thousands of dollars. There's plenty of small businesses that would kill to net hundreds of thousands of dollars.
- jazzyjackson 4y ago
  > Office chairs don’t have a big resale value Check out ebay auctions for Herman Miller Aeron, they're still worth something !
blueprint 4y ago
we weren't talking about the value of apple's stock or its property aside from the cash it holds on hand. did you just not read what i wrote? the considerable number of downvoters must have made the same mistake as you i guess. the question is whether fiat cash is any more real than cryptocurrencies. and as for them being a null term, you have no clue what you're talking about or you're intentionally trolling. please don't reply to me.

School-Cotton 4y ago

> actually do have what you would call "intrinsic" value I just spent all day digging a hole in my backyard for no reason. Does it have intrinsic value?