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> Imagine if more consumers and advertisers start enjoying consuming and being associated with malevolent, hateful, and violence-inducing speech. > Many in the
by josteink 4y ago
> Imagine if more consumers and advertisers start enjoying consuming and being associated with malevolent, hateful, and violence-inducing speech.
> Many in the 1930s-40s enjoyed the hateful caricatures of Jews that the Nazis produced in their propaganda, and hateful people also buy refrigerators and sneakers today.
I may be sidetracking the conversation here, but I must admit I find it fascinating how “hatefulness” online is almost always assumed to be right-wing extremism.
Have everyone forgotten the BLM and Antifa riots going on for months where innocent people had their property, livelihood and in some cases even their lives taken?
That was fully encouraged and endorsed by the left, en masse, and especially so on Twitter.
Was that not “hate”? If not, what is?
- JohnBooty 4y agoYou are correct. There is no difference between oppressing people, and fighting against oppression. Nazis are the same as anti-Nazis, racists are the same as anti-racists. Remember when India rebelled and cast out the British? Literally no difference between the two sides. Racist police versus civil rights marchers in the 1960s? Hey, both sides were mad. Totally the same.
- josteink 4y agoIt may be obvious, but just in case it isn't: Everyone think they are fighting the good fight. Nobody sets out to be evil. Liberals thinks they are fighting for positive change. Conservatives wants to preserve what they think is good. Ofcourse the people burning the city down and looting think they are doing the right thing, or at least doing it for the right reasons. Ofcourse the black people "taking the streets back" feel entitled to it, after whatever backstory there was. But during the Antifa and BLM riots, actual businesses, owned by innocents bystanders got ruined. Innocent people got murdered. There were real tragedies to real people, mostly white. When that gets cheered on at social media-sites like twitter (or live on CNN!), it's hard to frame it as anything except hate against white people. Maybe they thought they were fighting oppression. But at the same time they were oppressing. They became what they claimed to fight. Who are to say they are better than the people they claimed to be fighting, which didn't burn down cities, didn't kill innocent civilians? The ends does not justify the means. Not in a lawful society at least. These were hateful acts. EOT.
- twoWhlsGud 4y agoI think it's perfectly reasonable to rank acts by the threat they post to the Republic. The left wing riots you speak of were a problem in few very limited locations (parts of a few cities). They didn't threaten to end democracy. Major parts of the Republican party are actively trying to bring American democracy to a close. It's hard to see the benefit of both-siding in the presence of that threat.
- smsm42 4y agoNobody tried to "bring American democracy to a close", that's a lie.
- Cyberdog 4y agoGovernment fetishism. The threat they "post" to some abstract concept like "the republic" is not more important than the threat they pose to their fellow man.
- josteink 4y agoI'm not taking trying to take any absolute sides. Even the best of people will do bad things. You can find dirt on anyone, if you like. What I was originally responding to was the fear of twitter allowing hateful speech, which ofcourse had to be right-wing "hateful" speech. My comment was more directed towards how I found that (default) assumption weird, since I see tons and tons of clearly hateful content and attitudes from all sides of the political spectrum online and in social media. When I see people complaining about all that "hateful" speech online from one end of the political spectrum, I have a hard time seeing that as something else but denial about the hateful speech their side of the political spectrum themselves are promoting, or worse deliberately ignoring. The fact that you find someone else's opinion disagreeable, distasteful or "hateful" is not a blanket-license for you yourself to act disagreeable, distasteful or "hateful" in response. It's a chance for you to be a better person. If you want to fix our divided world, you need to show people there's a middle way, and you do that by calling out bullshit on both sides.
- ribosometronome 4y ago
- danans 4y agoI think (and sincerely hope) that you forgot to include the "/s"
- bsagdiyev 4y agoNo he's thinks it's some edgy, never heard of stuff and he's made some compelling argument.
- danans 4y agoTheir comment history doesn't demonstrate trolling or false equivalency making, so by principle of charity I will believe it's sarcasm, until proven otherwise. But such equivalencies appear to be an idea you've promoted though, if I'm reading your past comments correctly. Also, give Azamat a hug for me. I miss that guy.
- JohnBooty 4y agoIndeed, yes. It was sarcasm/parody. I felt it insulting to include the /s but may have been wrong. I realize it's not HN-appropriate, but once in a while I break down and make fun of those who see no difference between oppression and fighting against the oppression (or fundamentally don't understand the difference between "being mean" and "systemic oppression")
- deleted 4y ago[deleted]
- ribosometronome 4y agoCan you show me where the left was, en masse, supporting people having their livelihood and lives taken? Which prominent members of the left were cheering on killing? Biden? Bernie? Hell, was it Internet personalities like Vaush? I didn't see that at all.
- tekknik 4y agoCan you show me the same for the right? Not some misinformation spin (the hate/division parent is talking about), an actual en masse cheering of killing people from the right? Why is what BLM and antifa always excused? Why can’t you condemn it so we can fix the country? Some of us are over the left v right politics and want the left to realize their problems so we can all move on.
- ribosometronome 4y agoI suspect you may be less over the left v. right split than you think you are. The person I was replying to was making specific claims about what folk on the left were doing, en masse. I asked to see it. The person making it "v. right" is you (and him).
- tekknik 4y agoConvenient way to remove yourself there. No you made it left v right as well. So how come BLM and Antifas actions are not condemned by the left?
- mikkergp 4y agoThey are, often but “the left” is not one organized group of people. This is actually a fundamental problem with discourse that I don’t know how to solve. There is a reasonable moderate left that struggles with these kind of issues, and its pretty large. Most maybe even! Why is it you’re acting like there’s only one “left voice”? There will always be communists and SJW’s free speech doesn’t work if you act like the extreme voices are the mainstream or only voices of value.
- nr2x 4y agoI heard somebody got fired by Antifa because they had a second job with BLM. Both organizations really micromanage people. I think we should start holding the leadership accountable.