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I'm not a huge Musk fan, mostly because of his political ramblings and especially revolving around Ukraine; but I find the sudden hatred of him pretty odd. Mass

I'm not a huge Musk fan, mostly because of his political ramblings and especially revolving around Ukraine; but I find the sudden hatred of him pretty odd. Mass layoffs happen all the time, Square just announced a 14% cut yesterday. In terms of Twitter's current moderation nothing has really changed on the platform, I'm an avid user and have seen no difference. It's not really just Musk, it feels like there is a turn on any social media platform that doesn't do wide arrays of censorship that lean whatever way you're inclined to agree with (this includes conservatives hating TikTok.) Musk has said he wants a free-speech platform but has never claimed it would have no moderation. There was a piece somewhere about a rise in the use of the N word, but there was no follow up showing if those accounts were banned. Seems like an important part of the story. Honestly some of this feels like a hit job. I've not found anyone that can point to something inherently wrong with the new vision of Twitter that isn't based in some crazy hyperbole not in tune with reality. Twitter has been horribly run for ages, someone trying to revive it isn't bad. When I use a platform, unless the person is a literal Nazi or Communist, I don't care what their political beliefs are. I care about the product. I think that is being lost on people where now everything revolves around politics. It's kind of sad, especially when we all basically agree on 90% of things and policy. We used to complain about data silos and filter bubbles...and now people just leave platforms because leadership may not share their political views? How is that good? I think the media itself has fed into this because they have always hated social media (for better or worse) for making them no longer the first source of news when print was already dying.

sbf501 4y ago
It is illegal to do layoffs like this at scale without following the California WARN act: https://edition.cnn.com/2022/11/03/tech/twitter-layoffs/index.html https://edition.cnn.com/2022/11/03/tech/twitter-layoffs/inde... It's a dick move and demonstrates someone who doesn't understand how to build worker loyalty. Forcing people to tap dance 80+ hours a week or be fired (without mega compensation) doesn't earn you loyalty. Yeah, he claims he works 120 hour weeks, but he also reaps nearly all of the compensation. But I think the benefit of all this is having someone trying to break the laws. He's pentesting federal & state worker protections. That's a good thing in the long term, not so much in the short term.
- partiallypro 4y ago
  I'm well aware of the law, it has been posted everywhere. However, the article questions itself, because it doesn't say how many have actually been laid off, when that date is effective or if they will just get their pay for 60 days; so he might not even be in violation. I don't think Elon is just doing this all solo, he probably has a legal department and also has advice from one of his co-investors which is still Jack Dorsey. All of which kind of supports my point of the media doing a bit of a hitjob. They did the same during the Cambridge Analytica scandal and a huge portion of the reporting came out to later be mostly not true. The irony is that the media may be doing exactly what they want Twitter to crack down on.
  - sbf501 4y ago
    "They" did the same thing? What was "mostly not true" about the CA scandal?
    - partiallypro 4y ago
      Yes, "they" as in the media at large. I don't know what you're trying to get at with your quotation marks. Most media are corporate owned and by only a few companies. With journalists sharing talking points and share stories (remember JournaList, that was buried quick.) Now they do Slack channels, etc. You can even slowly see a talking point emerge where several large journalist accounts use the same verbiage and phrases, it's kind of interesting to watch. It has been reported on here on HN multiple times on how a large part of the CA scandal was not actually as big as the media portrayed. The media loves to make a bigger scandal out of something then slowly backtrack it over time. It happens a lot. Scandals get clicks and eyeballs.
      - sbf501 4y ago
        > You can even slowly see a talking point emerge where several large journalist accounts That's true. The "2020 election was stolen" lie was amplified by all the mainstream media. Word for word.
- 4y ago
mikkergp 4y ago
What is the new vision for twitter? Musk has ridiculed his customers, acted unpredictably, and fired people unceremoniously while joking about on Twitter. To me, all of the reaction seems to be completely appropriate given his actions. This is why actions matter! This is why CEO’s get communications training, because in the absence of reading his mind, the world has to react to his behavior. Being a leader of a 45 billion dollar corporation is hard, this is why most CEO’s that do it don’t have two other part time jobs. Maybe it will turn out ok, but I don’t see how you can not see that his behavior warrants scrutiny and pause, and seemingly attribute it all to vague notions of political beliefs.
- partiallypro 4y ago
  Do you honestly think your first sentence has anything to do with public/media reaction? I mean honestly? Because the same reaction happened in April when none of this had occurred. There had been a turn against Musk before the Twitter acquisition was even a thought. I just find it interesting.
  - mikkergp 4y ago
    I honestly do. He's done a really bad job of consistently explaining why he would be a good person to entrust twitter too. He can be great in certain interviews. I think here he does a pretty good job of staying professional and building his case: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=33475005 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=33475005 But in April he was like chief internet meme operator manipulating dogecoin markets and building a case for free speech absolutism. So yeah, I 100% honestly believe that the public and media's reaction is mostly rational.
Niksko 4y ago
Time and time again, Musk has shown that he does not understand the nuances of free speech and moderation, and has presented nothing to indicate that he has any new solutions to the problems he is claiming to want to solve. You're applying good faith reasoning to someone with a proven track record of acting in bad faith. That's noble of you, but you shouldn't be surprised if others don't follow suit.
- throwayyy479087 4y ago
  Twitter bans people for not following a very narrow set of gender and racial hierarchy rules. There’s no nuance here.

sbf501 4y ago

It is illegal to do layoffs like this at scale without following the California WARN act: https://edition.cnn.com/2022/11/03/tech/twitter-layoffs/index.html https://edition.cnn.com/2022/11/03/tech/twitter-layoffs/inde... It's a dick move and demonstrates someone who doesn't understand how to build worker loyalty. Forcing people to tap dance 80+ hours a week or be fired (without mega compensation) doesn't earn you loyalty. Yeah, he claims he works 120 hour weeks, but he also reaps nearly all of the compensation. But I think the benefit of all this is having someone trying to break the laws. He's pentesting federal & state worker protections. That's a good thing in the long term, not so much in the short term.

partiallypro 4y ago
I'm well aware of the law, it has been posted everywhere. However, the article questions itself, because it doesn't say how many have actually been laid off, when that date is effective or if they will just get their pay for 60 days; so he might not even be in violation. I don't think Elon is just doing this all solo, he probably has a legal department and also has advice from one of his co-investors which is still Jack Dorsey. All of which kind of supports my point of the media doing a bit of a hitjob. They did the same during the Cambridge Analytica scandal and a huge portion of the reporting came out to later be mostly not true. The irony is that the media may be doing exactly what they want Twitter to crack down on.
- sbf501 4y ago
  "They" did the same thing? What was "mostly not true" about the CA scandal?
  - partiallypro 4y ago
    Yes, "they" as in the media at large. I don't know what you're trying to get at with your quotation marks. Most media are corporate owned and by only a few companies. With journalists sharing talking points and share stories (remember JournaList, that was buried quick.) Now they do Slack channels, etc. You can even slowly see a talking point emerge where several large journalist accounts use the same verbiage and phrases, it's kind of interesting to watch. It has been reported on here on HN multiple times on how a large part of the CA scandal was not actually as big as the media portrayed. The media loves to make a bigger scandal out of something then slowly backtrack it over time. It happens a lot. Scandals get clicks and eyeballs.
    - sbf501 4y ago
      > You can even slowly see a talking point emerge where several large journalist accounts That's true. The "2020 election was stolen" lie was amplified by all the mainstream media. Word for word.
4y ago

mikkergp 4y ago

What is the new vision for twitter? Musk has ridiculed his customers, acted unpredictably, and fired people unceremoniously while joking about on Twitter. To me, all of the reaction seems to be completely appropriate given his actions. This is why actions matter! This is why CEO’s get communications training, because in the absence of reading his mind, the world has to react to his behavior. Being a leader of a 45 billion dollar corporation is hard, this is why most CEO’s that do it don’t have two other part time jobs. Maybe it will turn out ok, but I don’t see how you can not see that his behavior warrants scrutiny and pause, and seemingly attribute it all to vague notions of political beliefs.

partiallypro 4y ago
Do you honestly think your first sentence has anything to do with public/media reaction? I mean honestly? Because the same reaction happened in April when none of this had occurred. There had been a turn against Musk before the Twitter acquisition was even a thought. I just find it interesting.
- mikkergp 4y ago
  I honestly do. He's done a really bad job of consistently explaining why he would be a good person to entrust twitter too. He can be great in certain interviews. I think here he does a pretty good job of staying professional and building his case: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=33475005 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=33475005 But in April he was like chief internet meme operator manipulating dogecoin markets and building a case for free speech absolutism. So yeah, I 100% honestly believe that the public and media's reaction is mostly rational.

Niksko 4y ago

Time and time again, Musk has shown that he does not understand the nuances of free speech and moderation, and has presented nothing to indicate that he has any new solutions to the problems he is claiming to want to solve. You're applying good faith reasoning to someone with a proven track record of acting in bad faith. That's noble of you, but you shouldn't be surprised if others don't follow suit.

throwayyy479087 4y ago
Twitter bans people for not following a very narrow set of gender and racial hierarchy rules. There’s no nuance here.