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Honestly, what? Every job I have had in IT/programming/universities/heavy industry have been "at will". We can fire you at any time for any reason. Is silicon

Honestly, what? Every job I have had in IT/programming/universities/heavy industry have been "at will". We can fire you at any time for any reason. Is silicon valley not like this? What is this "advanced notice"?? No, really, I am not taking sides, but is this how it works at some places? I have been working for several decades, I have _never_ heard of this.

Macha 4y ago
California has 60 days. Most European countries have more
- trap_goes_hot 4y ago
  I wasn't aware of the 60 days in CA. Link? Thanks!
  - WoahNoun 4y ago
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Worker_Adjustment_and_Retraining_Notification_Act_of_1988#State_and_local_laws https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Worker_Adjustment_and_Retraini...
  - mikebonnell 4y ago
    CA WARN act -- https://edd.ca.gov/en/Jobs_and_Training/Layoff_Services_WARN https://edd.ca.gov/en/Jobs_and_Training/Layoff_Services_WARN
- quux 4y ago
  New York as well
- themadturk 4y ago
  Washington, too. https://esd.wa.gov/about-employees/WARN https://esd.wa.gov/about-employees/WARN
- coredog64 4y ago
  Federal WARN Act requires 60 days. States like CA and NY have additional constraints, but it’s typically more strict definitions of what constitutes a mass layoff (total count, number of employees at a single site) or who is covered. Haven’t checked in a while, but ISTR NY, for example, has a lower employer size threshold than Federal law.
sn41 4y ago
In most European countries, there are notice periods. Germany has pretty stringent laws regarding this.
chris11 4y ago
Federal and California WARN acts require advance notification for mass layoffs. It's still "at will", but more regulations come into play if a lot of people lose their jobs.
philliphaydon 4y ago
When companies plan to make a portion of a company redundant they typically need to annouce their intentions in advance, depending on the country. As is the case of this lawsuit. This is different to an employee being let go. This isn't a bunch of people being fired, this is retrenchment due to reorganization.
falcolas 4y ago
California is at-will. And it still requires 60 days notice for a mass-layoff, thorough a separate act, because it's a special case that's covered by a separate law. > “an employer may not order a mass layoff, relocation, or termination at a covered establishment unless, 60 days before the order takes effect, the employer gives written notice of the order” https://www.dir.ca.gov/dlse/Cal-WARNAct.html https://www.dir.ca.gov/dlse/Cal-WARNAct.html
- notyourwork 4y ago
  Without sounding dumb, this is saying that a company has to tell you 60 days ahead of time that in 60 days they will fire you? edit: Thank you for the clarification, appreciate the added insights.
  - falcolas 4y ago
    Pretty much, yes. It's an employee friendly policy, which is certainly not the norm. But given how long tech interviews can take, it's a good policy for tech employees. Note, I don't benefit from this since I'm not in CA, but I still think it's a good idea.
  - Macha 4y ago
    Yes. They don't have to let you into the building, let you access their systems, etc., but they need to fulfil their contractual obligations in terms of pay and benefits for 60 days. (EU laws apply more broadly, but the California one is only in the event of mass layoffs)
  - deleted 4y ago
    [deleted]
  - pwinnski 4y ago
    Instead of phrasing it that way, think of it has companies being required to give you 60 days notice, just like they want you to give them two weeks notice. Every time I've ever been at a company doing layoffs, they paid salaries (and benefits) for at least 60 days after the announcement, precisely because of laws like this.
rco8786 4y ago
Turns out employment laws are a thing and employees have some rights. Yes.
nanidin 4y ago
The intent of the law is to allow time to prepare for macro level effects in case of a mass layoff. This gives the government time to spin up unemployment resources and job transition programs, in theory.

Macha 4y ago

California has 60 days. Most European countries have more

trap_goes_hot 4y ago
I wasn't aware of the 60 days in CA. Link? Thanks!
- WoahNoun 4y ago
  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Worker_Adjustment_and_Retraining_Notification_Act_of_1988#State_and_local_laws https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Worker_Adjustment_and_Retraini...
- mikebonnell 4y ago
  CA WARN act -- https://edd.ca.gov/en/Jobs_and_Training/Layoff_Services_WARN https://edd.ca.gov/en/Jobs_and_Training/Layoff_Services_WARN
quux 4y ago
New York as well
themadturk 4y ago
Washington, too. https://esd.wa.gov/about-employees/WARN https://esd.wa.gov/about-employees/WARN
coredog64 4y ago
Federal WARN Act requires 60 days. States like CA and NY have additional constraints, but it’s typically more strict definitions of what constitutes a mass layoff (total count, number of employees at a single site) or who is covered. Haven’t checked in a while, but ISTR NY, for example, has a lower employer size threshold than Federal law.

sn41 4y ago

In most European countries, there are notice periods. Germany has pretty stringent laws regarding this.

chris11 4y ago

Federal and California WARN acts require advance notification for mass layoffs. It's still "at will", but more regulations come into play if a lot of people lose their jobs.

philliphaydon 4y ago

When companies plan to make a portion of a company redundant they typically need to annouce their intentions in advance, depending on the country. As is the case of this lawsuit. This is different to an employee being let go. This isn't a bunch of people being fired, this is retrenchment due to reorganization.

falcolas 4y ago

California is at-will. And it still requires 60 days notice for a mass-layoff, thorough a separate act, because it's a special case that's covered by a separate law. > “an employer may not order a mass layoff, relocation, or termination at a covered establishment unless, 60 days before the order takes effect, the employer gives written notice of the order” https://www.dir.ca.gov/dlse/Cal-WARNAct.html https://www.dir.ca.gov/dlse/Cal-WARNAct.html

notyourwork 4y ago
Without sounding dumb, this is saying that a company has to tell you 60 days ahead of time that in 60 days they will fire you? edit: Thank you for the clarification, appreciate the added insights.
- falcolas 4y ago
  Pretty much, yes. It's an employee friendly policy, which is certainly not the norm. But given how long tech interviews can take, it's a good policy for tech employees. Note, I don't benefit from this since I'm not in CA, but I still think it's a good idea.
- Macha 4y ago
  Yes. They don't have to let you into the building, let you access their systems, etc., but they need to fulfil their contractual obligations in terms of pay and benefits for 60 days. (EU laws apply more broadly, but the California one is only in the event of mass layoffs)
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]
- pwinnski 4y ago
  Instead of phrasing it that way, think of it has companies being required to give you 60 days notice, just like they want you to give them two weeks notice. Every time I've ever been at a company doing layoffs, they paid salaries (and benefits) for at least 60 days after the announcement, precisely because of laws like this.

rco8786 4y ago

Turns out employment laws are a thing and employees have some rights. Yes.

nanidin 4y ago

The intent of the law is to allow time to prepare for macro level effects in case of a mass layoff. This gives the government time to spin up unemployment resources and job transition programs, in theory.