4 ms·

This was extremely true during the initial wave of covid too: productivity shot up a TON, because the people who were laid off were in inherently low productivi

by xxpor 4y ago

This was extremely true during the initial wave of covid too: productivity shot up a TON, because the people who were laid off were in inherently low productivity sectors like restaurants, theme parks, etc.

mschuster91 4y ago
And now these restaurants, theme parks, movie theatres, literally everyone with a low-skill, low-margin business are all finding out that maybe a society shouldn't use "productivity" to judge the worth of people.
- WalterBright 4y ago
  This is another formulation of the Labor Theory of Value, which has been discredited time and again. Societies based on the LToV have not done well.
  - mschuster91 4y ago
    > Societies based on the LToV have not done well. As the countless number of stores closed entirely or with massively reduced opening hours shows, societies that over-pay for bullshit jobs (=investment bankers, C-level executives, ...) and under-pay workers who do actual work in gruesome conditions don't do well either once workers realize the power is with them.
  - recursivedoubts 4y ago
    The Labor Theory of Value is true: value is created when human labor is applied to raw materials. Just because the Marxists adopted the idea doesn't make it wrong. They were wrong about other things. Adam Smith and David Ricardo both believed in the labor theory of value.
    - MichaelCollins 4y ago
      > The Labor Theory of Value is true: value is created when human labor is applied to raw materials. Wrong, value is created subjectively, by other people desiring the products of that labor. If nobody wants what the laborers created, then their labor had no value. Roll a rock up and down a hill all day. You'll work hard as hell but you'll create no value. Anybody who denies the subjective theory of value is out to lunch.
      - recursivedoubts 4y ago
        I agree that value is subjective, but value is still created by labor. Sit and stare at a rock and you have created no new value. Labor can also destroy value, for example when a building is destroyed in a riot, or when a rock is pushed up a hill to a location that makes it less valuable.
        MichaelCollins 4y ago
        Trip over a sufficiently shiny rock and you'll discover that it has value (to some people) even though you put no labor into it.
        recursivedoubts 4y ago
        yes, a very small amount of readily available (labor free) raw material has value to some people but most raw material requires applied labor to become valuable: at the very least transportation to them
    - WalterBright 4y ago
      > Adam Smith and David Ricardo both believed in the labor theory of value. Everybody makes misteaks.
      - recursivedoubts 4y ago
        Not me!
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by xxpor 4y ago

mschuster91 4y ago

And now these restaurants, theme parks, movie theatres, literally everyone with a low-skill, low-margin business are all finding out that maybe a society shouldn't use "productivity" to judge the worth of people.

WalterBright 4y ago
This is another formulation of the Labor Theory of Value, which has been discredited time and again. Societies based on the LToV have not done well.
- mschuster91 4y ago
  > Societies based on the LToV have not done well. As the countless number of stores closed entirely or with massively reduced opening hours shows, societies that over-pay for bullshit jobs (=investment bankers, C-level executives, ...) and under-pay workers who do actual work in gruesome conditions don't do well either once workers realize the power is with them.
- recursivedoubts 4y ago
  The Labor Theory of Value is true: value is created when human labor is applied to raw materials. Just because the Marxists adopted the idea doesn't make it wrong. They were wrong about other things. Adam Smith and David Ricardo both believed in the labor theory of value.
  - MichaelCollins 4y ago
    > The Labor Theory of Value is true: value is created when human labor is applied to raw materials. Wrong, value is created subjectively, by other people desiring the products of that labor. If nobody wants what the laborers created, then their labor had no value. Roll a rock up and down a hill all day. You'll work hard as hell but you'll create no value. Anybody who denies the subjective theory of value is out to lunch.
    - recursivedoubts 4y ago
      I agree that value is subjective, but value is still created by labor. Sit and stare at a rock and you have created no new value. Labor can also destroy value, for example when a building is destroyed in a riot, or when a rock is pushed up a hill to a location that makes it less valuable.
      - MichaelCollins 4y ago
        Trip over a sufficiently shiny rock and you'll discover that it has value (to some people) even though you put no labor into it.
        recursivedoubts 4y ago
        yes, a very small amount of readily available (labor free) raw material has value to some people but most raw material requires applied labor to become valuable: at the very least transportation to them
  - WalterBright 4y ago
    > Adam Smith and David Ricardo both believed in the labor theory of value. Everybody makes misteaks.
    - recursivedoubts 4y ago
      Not me!
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