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The notion of "progress" is just mythologizing the past and fetishizing a particular version of the future. It only serves to portray alternatives as "anti-prog

The notion of "progress" is just mythologizing the past and fetishizing a particular version of the future. It only serves to portray alternatives as "anti-progress"; it is a rhetorical cudgel devoid of substance. We have problems that need solving, climate change is one of them. Musk's notion of Mars as "Planet B" is an entirely unworkable idea, and dangerous in that it invites postponing action in favor of a silver bullet that will never arrive. Things are not worth doing simply because they are risky - that's just more fetishism. They are worth doing because they solve problems. Space travel has the potential to solve certain problems, and is already solving lots of problems today. Mars colonization is not a serious proposal to any problem, because it can't be accomplished on any time horizon we're planning for. Mars colonization will likely never happen, and if it does, it is far beyond the foreseeable future (>100 years). So; SpaceX's rockets (and satellites) could certainly be useful, and are certainly useful today, but as GP pointed out, Musk's stated purpose is nonsense.

kamaal 4y ago
Whats the problem? Feel free to sit down and do nothing. While others do something. Why do you feel entitled to dictate how other people must spend their time and resources, even to fail.
- maxbond 4y ago
  Why derail the conversation with rudeness and condescension? Why put words in my mouth instead of engaging with what I've said? Cui bono? At the scale of individuals I would agree people should be free to try whatever hairbrained schemes they please, at that scale who am I to say what will work out or won't or what success even means. What concerns me is that so many people are buying into false solutions and transparent grift about real and pressing issues that impact us all collectively. Musk isn't a crackpot who should be tolerated in the interests of liberty, he's a public figure who is actively causing harm, and I believe will cause more in the future. So I'm certainly entitled to share my views on this public figure, and I'll continue to do so. I'm curious why you would respond to that so defensively.
  - kamaal 4y ago
    >>I'm curious why you would respond to that so defensively. Because I think I shouldn't do X. == ok I think You shouldn't do X. == no I think you should get all the rights to not start a rocket company, car company, a tunnel boring company, solar panel company. But you demanding others not start all those companies seems to be wrong to me. Again, I give you all the rights do sit down and do nothing.
    - tsunamifury 4y ago
      This has to be the most simplistically silly interpretation of liberty ive ever seen.
    - maxbond 4y ago
      Whatever comment it is you're responding to, it doesn't seem to be mine, since I never said any of those things. The freedom you seem to be advocating for is freedom from other people having opinions, existing, or speaking to you. As if they only mattered when they agreed with you or were willing to help you, and they became irrelevant the moment they had a criticism. I think you should reconsider. I think life is better with vigorous debate with people you disagree with, and that the things you so badly want to "get done" will be richer and deeper if you engage with people who may not like what you're doing. Otherwise, how could there be any other outcome than finding yourself surrounded by yes men?

kamaal 4y ago

Whats the problem? Feel free to sit down and do nothing. While others do something. Why do you feel entitled to dictate how other people must spend their time and resources, even to fail.

maxbond 4y ago
Why derail the conversation with rudeness and condescension? Why put words in my mouth instead of engaging with what I've said? Cui bono? At the scale of individuals I would agree people should be free to try whatever hairbrained schemes they please, at that scale who am I to say what will work out or won't or what success even means. What concerns me is that so many people are buying into false solutions and transparent grift about real and pressing issues that impact us all collectively. Musk isn't a crackpot who should be tolerated in the interests of liberty, he's a public figure who is actively causing harm, and I believe will cause more in the future. So I'm certainly entitled to share my views on this public figure, and I'll continue to do so. I'm curious why you would respond to that so defensively.
- kamaal 4y ago
  >>I'm curious why you would respond to that so defensively. Because I think I shouldn't do X. == ok I think You shouldn't do X. == no I think you should get all the rights to not start a rocket company, car company, a tunnel boring company, solar panel company. But you demanding others not start all those companies seems to be wrong to me. Again, I give you all the rights do sit down and do nothing.
  - tsunamifury 4y ago
    This has to be the most simplistically silly interpretation of liberty ive ever seen.
  - maxbond 4y ago
    Whatever comment it is you're responding to, it doesn't seem to be mine, since I never said any of those things. The freedom you seem to be advocating for is freedom from other people having opinions, existing, or speaking to you. As if they only mattered when they agreed with you or were willing to help you, and they became irrelevant the moment they had a criticism. I think you should reconsider. I think life is better with vigorous debate with people you disagree with, and that the things you so badly want to "get done" will be richer and deeper if you engage with people who may not like what you're doing. Otherwise, how could there be any other outcome than finding yourself surrounded by yes men?