4 ms·

I do agree there's a lot of people in tech who don't work hard and the problem has only gotten worse recently. I personally appreciate a blue collar approach t

I do agree there's a lot of people in tech who don't work hard and the problem has only gotten worse recently. I personally appreciate a blue collar approach to development. Don't be arrogant, do what you say you will and make sure that you're putting in your 40-50 hours a week of work, not 20 hours of work and 20 hours of ping-pong and bullshitting. Above all, be a professional. However, if you think for a second that you can replace US developers, building products for Americans with someone from Nigeria you are off your ass. The hardest part of software development isn't yolo-ing code into an IDE. It's collecting requirements, troubleshooting and translating that into both code and requirements docs for other teams. This is hard for native english speakers and approaching impossible for offshore teams. It works reasonable well with teams in the Americas because the timezones are close and the culture/language barriers aren't as high.

EMM_386 4y ago
> However, if you think for a second that you can replace US developers, building products for Americans with someone from Nigeria you are off your ass. I've been a SWE for decades and have worked on large, complex projects. I've always been an IC, never officially a manager (personal choice), but at the moment as part of my regular job writing code I am also managing a team of 10 developers from a country where they are being paid around 1/5th our rates and they are doing a very good job at at it. I don't make the hiring decisions where I am at the moment, and this was the decision. It turned out that, yes, good developers from country X can easily replace good developers from country Y. It's the same skills, you either have them or you don't.
- davewritescode 4y ago
  I'm late to respond but the reason it's likely working is because you are involved.
InCityDreams 4y ago
>if you think for a second that you can replace US developers, building products for Americans with someone from Nigeria you are off your ass. Looking at some of the crap coming out of the faangms - and a few others - I'll take a bet on the non-us developers ('nigerians')/ ui-deciders making a quite a few substantial improvements, and certainly not changing things just for the fuck of it. My hosts file is now full of the software-i-use-the-most's ip adresses so they don't/ can't auto-update when they try to phone home and all end up looking the same, whereas previously each had 'character'.
tbrownaw 4y ago
> * The hardest part of software development isn't yolo-ing code into an IDE. It's collecting requirements, troubleshooting and translating that into both code and requirements docs for other teams.* Pre-agile development laundered all that through a bunch of heavyweight documents and such. And while it had issues - leading to the whole agile thing - it also didn't completely not work.
nxmnxm99 4y ago
LOL. You're completely delusional. How exactly do you suppose multi-billion dollar companies selling to Americans while hiring Indians, like Freshdesk, operate? The average IIT grad is going to smack you - as cute as it is you think you're worth 6 figures because you can "collect requirements in English" This arrogance is why you'll be out of a job in ten years. The rest of the world is here to eat your lunch, yet American egos refuse to see the signs.
- davewritescode 4y ago
  I'm not saying international developers are incompetent, it's quite the opposite. I've worked with great engineers from all over the world, but I'm willing to say that on average, American engineers in American companies do a better job building products for Americans and Western Europeans. Come try to get my salary, I'm doing my best to stay ahead and justify it. We'll see who wins but I've been here before :)

EMM_386 4y ago

> However, if you think for a second that you can replace US developers, building products for Americans with someone from Nigeria you are off your ass. I've been a SWE for decades and have worked on large, complex projects. I've always been an IC, never officially a manager (personal choice), but at the moment as part of my regular job writing code I am also managing a team of 10 developers from a country where they are being paid around 1/5th our rates and they are doing a very good job at at it. I don't make the hiring decisions where I am at the moment, and this was the decision. It turned out that, yes, good developers from country X can easily replace good developers from country Y. It's the same skills, you either have them or you don't.

davewritescode 4y ago
I'm late to respond but the reason it's likely working is because you are involved.

InCityDreams 4y ago

>if you think for a second that you can replace US developers, building products for Americans with someone from Nigeria you are off your ass. Looking at some of the crap coming out of the faangms - and a few others - I'll take a bet on the non-us developers ('nigerians')/ ui-deciders making a quite a few substantial improvements, and certainly not changing things just for the fuck of it. My hosts file is now full of the software-i-use-the-most's ip adresses so they don't/ can't auto-update when they try to phone home and all end up looking the same, whereas previously each had 'character'.

tbrownaw 4y ago

> * The hardest part of software development isn't yolo-ing code into an IDE. It's collecting requirements, troubleshooting and translating that into both code and requirements docs for other teams.* Pre-agile development laundered all that through a bunch of heavyweight documents and such. And while it had issues - leading to the whole agile thing - it also didn't completely not work.

nxmnxm99 4y ago

LOL. You're completely delusional. How exactly do you suppose multi-billion dollar companies selling to Americans while hiring Indians, like Freshdesk, operate? The average IIT grad is going to smack you - as cute as it is you think you're worth 6 figures because you can "collect requirements in English" This arrogance is why you'll be out of a job in ten years. The rest of the world is here to eat your lunch, yet American egos refuse to see the signs.

davewritescode 4y ago
I'm not saying international developers are incompetent, it's quite the opposite. I've worked with great engineers from all over the world, but I'm willing to say that on average, American engineers in American companies do a better job building products for Americans and Western Europeans. Come try to get my salary, I'm doing my best to stay ahead and justify it. We'll see who wins but I've been here before :)