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You're a bit off on your points, but that's okay. He really talks a lot, doesn't he? > Musk created Tesla to counteract the existential risk of climate change,

You're a bit off on your points, but that's okay. He really talks a lot, doesn't he? > Musk created Tesla to counteract the existential risk of climate change, He created Tesla for the money that's in the growing electric car market > Neuralink to counteract the existential risk of AI, Neuralink exists for the possible future where neural computer interfaces are successful and popular so he can make lots of money > and SpaceX to counteract the existential risk of asteroids and other planet-killing catastrophes. Actually, SpaceX exists because there's tons of money to be made with government and commercial contracts. > Maybe that's why the people at his companies stay despite being pushed so hard? It's probably more because they like getting paid so they can afford nice things while they're not working. It might also be because Musk enterprises are in "interesting" areas of the job spectrum and thus workers might be more tolerant to bullshit because they get to tell themselves they launched a rocket into space.

naasking 4y ago
> He created Tesla for the money that's in the growing electric car market He arguably created that market. The same applies to your other points. Musk created the markets that didn't exist before. Others had tried and failed, so I'm sorry, but you just can't deny that. It could be luck, so I suppose we'll see. I have no doubt that Musk is interested in making money. I also have no doubt he enjoys that money from time to time. However, I think it's indisputable that no other billionaire works as hard as he does at his ventures, and I think a lot of his interest in that money is so that he can continue funding work to combat those existential risks. > It's probably more because they like getting paid so they can afford nice things while they're not working. Maybe you should read up on the working environment at these companies. There's not as much downtime as you imply. I personally wouldn't want to work for him given his management style, even on these existential problems.
- f1refly 4y ago
  > He arguably created that market. He didn't, he started the company at a time where governments all over the word started to really (depending on the country, obviously) kick companies butts for not innovating. There where electric cars before he started his company. Now, you could argue that he made it popular with the people, but I argue that the market penetration, especially during the early years, hasn't been sufficient for that. Musk also didn't invent space travel. You may have a point with neuralink, but I have yet to see a successful product come from that so if he is to create that market I'll give him that. He's really good at making his opinions heard though. Other companies don't have a relatively unfiltered channel like this, so it's easy to see how his viewpoints stick out.
  - naasking 4y ago
    > He didn't, he started the company at a time where governments all over the word started to really (depending on the country, obviously) kick companies butts for not innovating. There where electric cars before he started his company. Yes, and they all failed commercially. I'm not sure what point you think I'm making. It's undeniable that Musk was instrumental in creating the first commercially successful electric car. If he took advantage of government incentives to do so, that doesn't seem relevant, that's just good business sense. If your argument is that anyone could have succeeded in that environment, then why was Tesla the only successful electric car manufacturer for literally years? Do you disagree that the roadster made electric cars cool, and changed public perception on electric vehicles? > Musk also didn't invent space travel. Again, I'm not sure why this is relevant. Musk created the first commercially successful private launch company. Do you agree or disagree? I'm not disputing that Musk is also after money and fame and probably a few other things. I'm not sure why that's relevant to my point either. Even if it's enlightened self-interest driving him, it remains the case that Musk either founded or took over and pushed successful commercial ventures that are tackling existential risks to humanity.
    - f1refly 4y ago
      > then why was Tesla the only successful electric car manufacturer for literally years Because every other car manufacturer had no incentives to invest in that space when their ICE technology was working well for them. Musk made the bet that he could go big and make lots of money with that missed opportunity, and he arguably did. Other electric car companies weren't competing because it takes absurd amounts of money or people willing to give you that money, which Musk has. > Do you disagree that the roadster made electric cars cool, and changed public perception on electric vehicles I don't live in the US and honestly, while I saw some tesla cars rolling around here, their popularity correlated very strong with the rise of other brands. It's almost like consumers aren't opposed to the idea of electric vehicles, it's just that until that point all options where shit and tesla finally put some pressure on that market, so the other companies reacted. > Musk created the first commercially successful private launch company. Do you agree or disagree? He did, and I argue that it's just like the first point, it was inevitable and Musk made the right call to invest his money in commercial launch operations because there where tons of money to be made. This wasn't about if he started those companies, it's about the why. And the why is: There's tons of money to be made.
s1artibartfast 4y ago
Even if you assume he did it for the money, are you disputing the idea that those are net good ventures and a benefit to humanity?
- f1refly 4y ago
  I don't know enough about the statistics to really give an opinion on that, but I'm usually in the "progress in technology is good fit humanity" camp, so I think I'll agree here until proven otherwise.

naasking 4y ago

> He created Tesla for the money that's in the growing electric car market He arguably created that market. The same applies to your other points. Musk created the markets that didn't exist before. Others had tried and failed, so I'm sorry, but you just can't deny that. It could be luck, so I suppose we'll see. I have no doubt that Musk is interested in making money. I also have no doubt he enjoys that money from time to time. However, I think it's indisputable that no other billionaire works as hard as he does at his ventures, and I think a lot of his interest in that money is so that he can continue funding work to combat those existential risks. > It's probably more because they like getting paid so they can afford nice things while they're not working. Maybe you should read up on the working environment at these companies. There's not as much downtime as you imply. I personally wouldn't want to work for him given his management style, even on these existential problems.

f1refly 4y ago
> He arguably created that market. He didn't, he started the company at a time where governments all over the word started to really (depending on the country, obviously) kick companies butts for not innovating. There where electric cars before he started his company. Now, you could argue that he made it popular with the people, but I argue that the market penetration, especially during the early years, hasn't been sufficient for that. Musk also didn't invent space travel. You may have a point with neuralink, but I have yet to see a successful product come from that so if he is to create that market I'll give him that. He's really good at making his opinions heard though. Other companies don't have a relatively unfiltered channel like this, so it's easy to see how his viewpoints stick out.
- naasking 4y ago
  > He didn't, he started the company at a time where governments all over the word started to really (depending on the country, obviously) kick companies butts for not innovating. There where electric cars before he started his company. Yes, and they all failed commercially. I'm not sure what point you think I'm making. It's undeniable that Musk was instrumental in creating the first commercially successful electric car. If he took advantage of government incentives to do so, that doesn't seem relevant, that's just good business sense. If your argument is that anyone could have succeeded in that environment, then why was Tesla the only successful electric car manufacturer for literally years? Do you disagree that the roadster made electric cars cool, and changed public perception on electric vehicles? > Musk also didn't invent space travel. Again, I'm not sure why this is relevant. Musk created the first commercially successful private launch company. Do you agree or disagree? I'm not disputing that Musk is also after money and fame and probably a few other things. I'm not sure why that's relevant to my point either. Even if it's enlightened self-interest driving him, it remains the case that Musk either founded or took over and pushed successful commercial ventures that are tackling existential risks to humanity.
  - f1refly 4y ago
    > then why was Tesla the only successful electric car manufacturer for literally years Because every other car manufacturer had no incentives to invest in that space when their ICE technology was working well for them. Musk made the bet that he could go big and make lots of money with that missed opportunity, and he arguably did. Other electric car companies weren't competing because it takes absurd amounts of money or people willing to give you that money, which Musk has. > Do you disagree that the roadster made electric cars cool, and changed public perception on electric vehicles I don't live in the US and honestly, while I saw some tesla cars rolling around here, their popularity correlated very strong with the rise of other brands. It's almost like consumers aren't opposed to the idea of electric vehicles, it's just that until that point all options where shit and tesla finally put some pressure on that market, so the other companies reacted. > Musk created the first commercially successful private launch company. Do you agree or disagree? He did, and I argue that it's just like the first point, it was inevitable and Musk made the right call to invest his money in commercial launch operations because there where tons of money to be made. This wasn't about if he started those companies, it's about the why. And the why is: There's tons of money to be made.

s1artibartfast 4y ago

Even if you assume he did it for the money, are you disputing the idea that those are net good ventures and a benefit to humanity?

f1refly 4y ago
I don't know enough about the statistics to really give an opinion on that, but I'm usually in the "progress in technology is good fit humanity" camp, so I think I'll agree here until proven otherwise.