4 ms·

The US safety net, in terms of spending, is as expansive or more expansive than the rest of the world. For example, the U.S. spends $748 billion on Medicaid, h

The US safety net, in terms of spending, is as expansive or more expansive than the rest of the world. For example, the U.S. spends $748 billion on Medicaid, health care for the poor, which is matched by state governments. Obamacare subsidies are another $160 billion a year. The fact is the terrible U.S. government administration of these programs and the regulatory capture of the health care system by doctors, pharma, and hospitals are the core issues, but liberals whistle past these real issues and wonder why we don't have European comforts and outcomes per dollar.

stuaxo 4y ago
Big numbers are just big numbers, per capita and outcomes is where it's at. Having said that, the US healthcare system is very efficient at extracting profit.
- robocat 4y ago
  An interesting rebuttal to the usual complaints about the US healthcare system (no idea how factual it actually is, but it passes my basic sniff tests, but it is a subject I am unfamiliar with): https://randomcriticalanalysis.com/why-conventional-wisdom-on-health-care-is-wrong-a-primer/ https://randomcriticalanalysis.com/why-conventional-wisdom-o... That said: tying insurance to employment is evil. I’m a New Zealander and our healthcare system certainly has its problems too.
cvwright 4y ago
We don’t have European comforts because we pay for our own national defense. We also pay for Europe’s defense. We should work out a deal where we continue to provide their security, and they provide our healthcare. Even Stevens.
- biorach 4y ago
  American healthcare is not underfunded due to defence spending. American healthcare is very well funded. It's just horribly inefficient and perverse.
- hnhg 4y ago
  The USA pays for a lot of offense too. The USA also pays a lot for healthcare in general so lack of funds isn’t the issue.
- bitcharmer 4y ago
  It never seizes to amaze me the simplicity with which the Americans view the world :)
  - drstewart 4y ago
    There's literally a war in Europe right now because Europeans underfunded defense. Luckily, America will save you again :)
llamaLord 4y ago
Just to be clear, you’re not implying that, just because the US spends more on healthcare than other countries, that means it’s any good right? Coz like… it’s not hard to spend trillions of dollars when you charge $5000 for a tablet you can buy in Australia for like… $20.
- s1artibartfast 4y ago
  I don't think that was the point that they are trying to make. A lot of people hold the belief Healthcare in the US is bad because it callously refuses to spend money on people. This is not the case. When you remember that those funds were largely deducted from someone's paycheck, it has a real impact on those workers and it's important not to dismiss all the hard work that did go into supplying those funds. That's not to say that there are major structural issues with how Healthcare is regulated in the US, primarily related to how those funds are spent
  - the_mar 4y ago
    I don’t know how “spending more money for less benefits” is better than “callously refusing to spend any money”? If your country has good intentions or bad it makes very little difference when u’re dying from treatable cancer because u can’t afford the care. Or when u have to go back to work immediately after giving birth. Honestly, my mother lives in Russia, which is by no means an example of a country with a good social net, she was mortified when I told her about US labor laws. It’s true u net more cash in the US, but u also have only urself to rely on if anything bad happens, and people are really bad at financial planning for any and all unfortunate circumstances
    - s1artibartfast 4y ago
      >I don’t know how “spending more money for less benefits” is better than “callously refusing to spend any money”? I don't know if it is better, but it is certainly a different problem, which matters if anyone is interested in understanding or fixing it. I think it is important to understand the problem specifically there are a lot of patients dying of treatable cancer who would benefit from a health care system that functions better.
defrost 4y ago
> but liberals whistle past these real issues and wonder why we don't have European comforts and outcomes per dollar. The US should grow up and stop it with these bicameral partisan pissing matches. Both the US centre right and alt-right parties are equally responsible for putting US citizens taxes directly in the grubby hands of middlemen who fail to deliver outcomes.
- s1artibartfast 4y ago
  The biggest problem with us Healthcare spending is how the money is allocated and spent. A lunch pin in the high cost is that the government has no concern for the cost to benefit of treatments and largely props up the price of the market. This is a bipartisan problem. If the government set reimbursement for treatments based on patient benefit, it would go a long way to reducing the cost in the US.

stuaxo 4y ago

Big numbers are just big numbers, per capita and outcomes is where it's at. Having said that, the US healthcare system is very efficient at extracting profit.

robocat 4y ago
An interesting rebuttal to the usual complaints about the US healthcare system (no idea how factual it actually is, but it passes my basic sniff tests, but it is a subject I am unfamiliar with): https://randomcriticalanalysis.com/why-conventional-wisdom-on-health-care-is-wrong-a-primer/ https://randomcriticalanalysis.com/why-conventional-wisdom-o... That said: tying insurance to employment is evil. I’m a New Zealander and our healthcare system certainly has its problems too.

cvwright 4y ago

We don’t have European comforts because we pay for our own national defense. We also pay for Europe’s defense. We should work out a deal where we continue to provide their security, and they provide our healthcare. Even Stevens.

biorach 4y ago
American healthcare is not underfunded due to defence spending. American healthcare is very well funded. It's just horribly inefficient and perverse.
hnhg 4y ago
The USA pays for a lot of offense too. The USA also pays a lot for healthcare in general so lack of funds isn’t the issue.
bitcharmer 4y ago
It never seizes to amaze me the simplicity with which the Americans view the world :)
- drstewart 4y ago
  There's literally a war in Europe right now because Europeans underfunded defense. Luckily, America will save you again :)

llamaLord 4y ago

Just to be clear, you’re not implying that, just because the US spends more on healthcare than other countries, that means it’s any good right? Coz like… it’s not hard to spend trillions of dollars when you charge $5000 for a tablet you can buy in Australia for like… $20.

s1artibartfast 4y ago
I don't think that was the point that they are trying to make. A lot of people hold the belief Healthcare in the US is bad because it callously refuses to spend money on people. This is not the case. When you remember that those funds were largely deducted from someone's paycheck, it has a real impact on those workers and it's important not to dismiss all the hard work that did go into supplying those funds. That's not to say that there are major structural issues with how Healthcare is regulated in the US, primarily related to how those funds are spent
- the_mar 4y ago
  I don’t know how “spending more money for less benefits” is better than “callously refusing to spend any money”? If your country has good intentions or bad it makes very little difference when u’re dying from treatable cancer because u can’t afford the care. Or when u have to go back to work immediately after giving birth. Honestly, my mother lives in Russia, which is by no means an example of a country with a good social net, she was mortified when I told her about US labor laws. It’s true u net more cash in the US, but u also have only urself to rely on if anything bad happens, and people are really bad at financial planning for any and all unfortunate circumstances
  - s1artibartfast 4y ago
    >I don’t know how “spending more money for less benefits” is better than “callously refusing to spend any money”? I don't know if it is better, but it is certainly a different problem, which matters if anyone is interested in understanding or fixing it. I think it is important to understand the problem specifically there are a lot of patients dying of treatable cancer who would benefit from a health care system that functions better.

defrost 4y ago

> but liberals whistle past these real issues and wonder why we don't have European comforts and outcomes per dollar. The US should grow up and stop it with these bicameral partisan pissing matches. Both the US centre right and alt-right parties are equally responsible for putting US citizens taxes directly in the grubby hands of middlemen who fail to deliver outcomes.

s1artibartfast 4y ago
The biggest problem with us Healthcare spending is how the money is allocated and spent. A lunch pin in the high cost is that the government has no concern for the cost to benefit of treatments and largely props up the price of the market. This is a bipartisan problem. If the government set reimbursement for treatments based on patient benefit, it would go a long way to reducing the cost in the US.