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Ask HN: Does this kind of arrogance get job applications?

46 points by redguava 15y ago

I just saw this job ad posted on Hacker News: http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=3346308 It comes across very arrogant to me, including this statement "VC funded yadayada". Working at a company is a big commitment for a person, it's where they are going to spend the majority of their waking life. Doesn't this deserve a bit more respect from employers? I don't care how fast the growth or how cool they believe themselves to be, it's an attitude that turns me off immediately. I am sure it's not doing them any favors. Does this job ad entice you to apply?

waxman 15y ago
It's essential that startup teams have great chemistry. If you don't appreciate their sense of humor (or vice versa), it's probably not a good fit. That's fine. It's better to establish these things sooner versus later in the interview process, so you're not wasting each other's time. To this end, I think it's productive when startups post job listings like this that genuinely reflect their culture and personality. It can serve as the first of several mutual filters to weed out potential candidates who wouldn't work well with the team.
- redguava 15y ago
  I agree with your sentiment, but I just don't see how this particular ad would make anyone say "Yes! That's the company culture for me". I guess that's what I am asking here though... does it inspire you to apply (or would it if you were looking)?
meric 15y ago
Not a "Rails Genius". If I was interested in such a job I would send "something you’ve built in Rails and any other work you’re proud of", but not spend a lot of time on it.
mikeleeorg 15y ago
I didn't find it that arrogant, but I think it's possible to get a glimpse of a company's culture through their job ad. If you felt their approach was a turn-off, it's likely you'd feel the same way about their culture & team as well. So for better or worse (they could argue better, you could argue worse), their job ad is filtering for people that would fit them.
overcyn 15y ago
What company is this? I cant seem to find it.
- deleted 15y ago
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- mjdwitt 15y ago
  That seems to be the point. I'm guessing they're trying to be "stealth."
  - deleted 15y ago
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  - tszming 15y ago
    If your website has 4M monthly unique users and growing like crazy, what is the point of being "stealth"?
  - Timothee 15y ago
    But if they're that big and growing that much, they can't be that stealth… Unless the "stealth" part is the fact that they're a YC company. By that I mean that it could be a company/product that is well known but it's unknown that the company joined YC last summer. Though I'm not sure if a secret like that could be kept easily… (e.g. TurnTable.fm could fit the bill of some of the details: NY, music-based, Facebook API, game dynamics, crowdsourced content, VC-funded… but they're not part of YC AFAICT) Another example is COLOURLovers which was big long before joining YCombinator. (so much so that I was very surprised that they did) NB: if it turns out, I'm right about TurnTable.fm, remember that you've read it here first :)
    - dangrossman 15y ago
      I'm 99% sure it's Rap Genius now. That same dropbox ID appears on an old Facebook post by their account. They're YC S11.
      - 15y ago
alexwolfe 15y ago
I think most would view this as some kind of joke or scam. Knowing that anyone can create a line graph and a gmail account I would have no reason at all to think this is a real company. Anyone growing that fast shouldn't be afraid to post a real email address, just doesn't add up for me. If this is some kind of style or joke I think it is better served to save that for when your having coffee. As laid back as our industry is, most would like to consider themselves professionals. This job posting doesn't seem very professional on any level.
- mjdwitt 15y ago
  Considering that the only companies allowed to post job ads here are YC alumni, you can trust that they are a real company. If I saw an ad like that posted anywhere else, however, I'd have the same reaction. Doubts of their existence aside, I still agree with the OP; ads like this make me think that I'd hate working for the founder posting them. If he wants me to try to prove my worth as a candidate, I want to know that its even worth my time to send him a portfolio/resume/cover letter.
  - bmelton 15y ago
    I don't think he was doubting their existence, but was just doubting whether or not the traffic graph was real -- it might have been a joke.
    - mjdwitt 15y ago
      no reason at all to think this is a real company That said, I definitely have no faith that the graphs are real or even loosely based on reality.
      - bmelton 15y ago
        I wouldn't be so quick to assume that. It's yc funded, and they say music-related. It could be earbits, which I read is doing something like 12,000,000 users a month. It could easily be somebody else as well. 4,000,000 uniques isn't a ton of users if you're somebody like Grooveshark, Spotify, Rdio, etc.
MichaelApproved 15y ago
Clickable link to job post in question http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=3346308 http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=3346308
astrec 15y ago
No, it doesn't entice me to apply. Intentional or otherwise, I think that's a good thing for both parties. The ad is a window into the soul of their company, unfortunate perhaps, but hardly arrogant.
- syaz1 15y ago
  I find this very profound.
  - syaz1 15y ago
    Not sure why I was downvoted. I meant to say I found GP's post to be profound: The ad is a window into the soul of their company, unfortunate perhaps, but hardly arrogant.
dangrossman 15y ago
From the numerous hints in the ad, I'm betting this was posted by Rap Genius. http://rapgenius.com/ http://rapgenius.com/
whalesalad 15y ago
Other job postings for the same company: ~160 days ago: http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=2736780 http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=2736780 ~130 days ago: http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=2863043 http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=2863043 My gut keeps telling me it's turntable.fm
- dangrossman 15y ago
  The traffic graph is several orders of magnitude off for turntable. I think it's Rap Genius. Goes with the "Rails Genius" title, traffic graph matches better, describes their app (from what I can tell), and I think that's their dropbox ID.
- klochner 15y ago
  turntable isn't a ycombinator company
  - mjdwitt 15y ago
    Timothee has an interesting theory about that: http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=3346641 http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=3346641
danilocampos 15y ago
I don't see the arrogance, and I'm very sensitive to douchespeak. Here I read a posting by a person who's confident in their company's direction, knows what they're looking for, and assumes the potential hire knows the drill after reading a bunch of these job ads after awhile. They're also pretty clear on what the product is and why a given engineer might enjoy working on it. This was nice, too, as flexibility is anything but arrogant: "Preferably NYC, but we’re flexible." Arrogance would be "we're in NYC. If you're not, don't bother writing." Or some such. Dunno, man, with the clarity of language and the refreshing brevity, this is one of the better specimens, to my mind.
- alexwolfe 15y ago
  I don't think what they are saying is arrogant but it is not very professional. They offer no name and a graph that you are supposed to take on good faith. In return they expect you to write them (what most would) a cover letter, including probably a resume, and a project you've built in rails that you are proud of. This is a tremendous amount of information and a effort to expect when they have given very little. By contrast they cannot provide a company name, a legitimate email address, or information on who is running the company. Granted the graph may be impressive but what about the company culture, location, work space, size, etc? Those seem like more important things to talk about for someone planning to commit the next year or two of their lives to a job.
  - mjdwitt 15y ago
    It'd be interesting to respond to the ad with an entirely anonymous resume and portfolio from some one-off email address. See if you get a response/request for more information.
  - danilocampos 15y ago
    Maybe they're in stealth. That limits how much of the kimono they're willing to open. Or maybe they're in the open but they want to brag about the traffic graph without having to spoil some press they're saving for later. (Though anyone who pays even a little attention around here would probably find it easy to suss out who these guys are. I have a good hunch.) I don't think it would be out of line to offer an equally pithy summary of one's work experience, along with a resume, and let the conversation go from there. They're signaling that they're not stuffy suits – I don't think the expectation is for an applicant to respond to the ad like they would a job at IBM. As to professionalism, eh, screw it. I'm exhausted with corporate bullshit and I know I hate when scrappy companies try to emulate it. They're "keeping it real," as the kids say, and that's a lot more pleasant to me than the stiff, stuffy, dull alternatives.
skurry 15y ago
Sounds like it was written by someone in a hurry. Or maybe by someone who had made the observation that the time invested in crafting a thorough job posting does not correlate significantly with the quality of applicants to said ad? In any case, I didn't strike me as that arrogant.
moocow01 15y ago
I'll agree that most job postings make me puke a little bit and are typically very poorly done across the industry. This certainly isn't all that great but it gets much much worse. One of my favorites was a job posting that started off bragging about what kind of cars everyone drives on the team. It literally had a long paragraph listing the types of cars everyone on the team drove (BMW, etc., etc.) before any of the job requirements. I personally would be more enticed by an ad that says everyone is required to roller blade to work.
Mz 15y ago
It comes across very arrogant to me, including this statement "VC funded yadayada". Given that other people here are saying that only YC funded companies can post a job ad here, maybe it's a "yeah, you knew that already, let's not waste any more time on that stuff" type sentiment. Of course, there are other people saying they didn't know that, so perhaps the main sin they are committing is assuming that the audience is as "in the know" as they are -- ie they are assuming everyone on HN is as aware as they are of how all this ties back to YC, only that's not an accurate assumption. It's often really tough to figure out how to make sure you are including enough information to inform your audience without including so much as to insult their intelligence. This becomes more complicated as audience size and diversity grows and HN is quite heavily trafficked these days. Perhaps it is better for this company to write the ad so as to not insult the intelligence of the more in-the-know types who realize the ads here are only from YC funded companies than to over-explain. It may be better to offend and alienate the relatively "clueless" than to insult the intelligence of the types of people they hope will actually apply. I mean if someone not in the know concludes they are arrogant pricks and "I wouldn't want to work there", hey, probably no loss. It might even be saving them wasted time (by reducing the number of applications from clueless people). But talking to the highly qualified like they are uninformed 5 year olds who need everything explained, well, there goes your best potential candidates. Good luck filling it now.
- alexwolfe 15y ago
  Regardless of how "In the know" you are, I doubt your going to feel awesome sending your cover, full resume, and project to HugeMeme@gmail.com
  - Mz 15y ago
    I'm not saying they got it right. Just that there may be another explanation for the specific line that was being criticized as "arrogant". That struck a chord with me because of how often I get accused of arrogance. I don't think I am arrogant. If you really are dramatically better at something than other people, owning that fact is a socially uncomfortable but somewhat unavoidable part of life. (If you try to say "no, no, I'm nothing special" when you really are that much better, that gets called "false modesty" and people heap flack on you for that as well. Damned if you do, damned if you don't.)
jabo 15y ago
I think we should have comment threads enabled on job posts on HN!
gsivil 15y ago
Hacking challenge: can somebody use google correlate and find the company unambiguously?
jmitcheson 15y ago
These jobs ads are probably written by co/founders who are still in 'pitch mode'. They've internalized introducing their company in terms of line charts and hyperbole. Give them a break :)