3 ms·

I have zero to do with Mariner, but I would just like to point out that nobody seems to have actually read the distro docs. I see it as a way to have end-to-end

by rcarmo 4y ago

I have zero to do with Mariner, but I would just like to point out that nobody seems to have actually read the distro docs. I see it as a way to have end-to-end supply chain management for critical components that are used across multiple MS workloads, and not as something directly targeted at customers, so all the conspiracy theories in this HN thread are incredibly amusing. Everyone’s free to use it, though. The entire thing is up on GitHub someplace (on mobile, so can’t dig out the repo easily), but some assembly might be required for your use case. As an anecdote, when I was playing around with it (built a VM, some containers, etc.) I also moved my personal laptop to Fedora because I realized I was out of touch with modern RPM-based distros.

bayindirh 4y ago
> so all the conspiracy theories in this HN thread are incredibly amusing. Microsoft may be just doing something for their needs, and putting in the open like a good citizen of the FOSS world, but the older people who remembers whatever happened back in the day have all their rights to be paranoid about MS. "Eh, this is the old Microsoft, today's one is different" is just a sentence. They still don't (and probably never will) inspire confidence when it comes to Linux and FOSS. We see what they have done with GitHub, for a start.
- rcarmo 4y ago
  Well, I have been in the industry for over a quarter of a century (at least) and joined Microsoft around the time Satya presented his “MS Loves Linux” slide, and those people would be amazed at the internal culture around OSS contributions. But having worked at several tech companies and with direct insight into a few others, I’m used to cognitive dissonance between outside views and reality. (It was a little annoying to get vaguely threatening, but overtly insulting e-mails at my taoofmac.com address the first couple of months, though. Oh, and I’m a Mac user, too. Try to factor that in …)
  - bayindirh 4y ago
    Everybody is telling the same thing, but with the all Secure Boot debacle, Halloween Documents, GPL violations with Copilot, and other things, it's very difficult to believe and feel this. When these definitions merge, Microsoft looks like a cozy home with a fireplace inside, but built like a spiky poisonous ball outside, designed to crush anything and everything. I don't want to act like a bone headed old men yelling to the cloud, but from outside, none of this is visible. Oh, even Microsoft screwed its own supporters with hot-reload support incident in .NET Core. Whenever I say myself, "OK, past is past. No need to be this rigid", Microsoft does another thing to make me return to my old stance. Maybe Microsoft needs to be able to see itself from outside?
    - rcarmo 4y ago
      Well, maybe you should listen to “everybody” a bit more, the way you’re piling on more dislikes and grim figures of speech into what wasn’t an argument is exactly why I never replied to any of those e-mails.
      - bayindirh 4y ago
        Well, seeing the actions of "Greater Microsoft" drowns out the actions and words of people who work inside the machine (aka "everybody"). Seems like we're not so different in the amount of history we have accumulated about these things called computers, so we have possibly seen many (if not all) of the big events shaped the industry. I'm not grim or angry, but have generous reservations for the company and its motives, that's all. I'm seeing Microsoft as an elephant in the china shop, contemplating the most efficient maneuver to break everything at once. That's all.
        fuzzfactor 4y ago
        In my 40-year petrochemical career I enjoy working most with the oustanding individuals that are employed by oil & chemical companies but who recognize they can afford to not operate as toxically as they used to do. They are working from within to make it more sensible for the rest of the world, but progress is hindered by the overwhelming momentum in the opposite direction remaining from those who are not on the same page at all.
- tssva 4y ago
  > We see what they have done with GitHub, for a start. Provide free hosting for countless FOSS projects?
  - bayindirh 4y ago
    > Provide free hosting for countless FOSS projects? and provide the resulting source code to anybody regardless of the source and target license w/o consent via Copilot. Also, it was free for FOSS even way before Microsoft, so that part doesn't even count.
    - tssva 4y ago
      > and provide the resulting source code to anybody regardless of the source and target license w/o consent via Copilot. That is one opinion. Mine is they used the code as allowed under the Github terms of use and/or the principles of fair use. Ultimately it doesn't matter what either of us think. A court will decide.
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]

by rcarmo 4y ago

bayindirh 4y ago

> so all the conspiracy theories in this HN thread are incredibly amusing. Microsoft may be just doing something for their needs, and putting in the open like a good citizen of the FOSS world, but the older people who remembers whatever happened back in the day have all their rights to be paranoid about MS. "Eh, this is the old Microsoft, today's one is different" is just a sentence. They still don't (and probably never will) inspire confidence when it comes to Linux and FOSS. We see what they have done with GitHub, for a start.

rcarmo 4y ago
Well, I have been in the industry for over a quarter of a century (at least) and joined Microsoft around the time Satya presented his “MS Loves Linux” slide, and those people would be amazed at the internal culture around OSS contributions. But having worked at several tech companies and with direct insight into a few others, I’m used to cognitive dissonance between outside views and reality. (It was a little annoying to get vaguely threatening, but overtly insulting e-mails at my taoofmac.com address the first couple of months, though. Oh, and I’m a Mac user, too. Try to factor that in …)
- bayindirh 4y ago
  Everybody is telling the same thing, but with the all Secure Boot debacle, Halloween Documents, GPL violations with Copilot, and other things, it's very difficult to believe and feel this. When these definitions merge, Microsoft looks like a cozy home with a fireplace inside, but built like a spiky poisonous ball outside, designed to crush anything and everything. I don't want to act like a bone headed old men yelling to the cloud, but from outside, none of this is visible. Oh, even Microsoft screwed its own supporters with hot-reload support incident in .NET Core. Whenever I say myself, "OK, past is past. No need to be this rigid", Microsoft does another thing to make me return to my old stance. Maybe Microsoft needs to be able to see itself from outside?
  - rcarmo 4y ago
    Well, maybe you should listen to “everybody” a bit more, the way you’re piling on more dislikes and grim figures of speech into what wasn’t an argument is exactly why I never replied to any of those e-mails.
    - bayindirh 4y ago
      Well, seeing the actions of "Greater Microsoft" drowns out the actions and words of people who work inside the machine (aka "everybody"). Seems like we're not so different in the amount of history we have accumulated about these things called computers, so we have possibly seen many (if not all) of the big events shaped the industry. I'm not grim or angry, but have generous reservations for the company and its motives, that's all. I'm seeing Microsoft as an elephant in the china shop, contemplating the most efficient maneuver to break everything at once. That's all.
      - fuzzfactor 4y ago
        In my 40-year petrochemical career I enjoy working most with the oustanding individuals that are employed by oil & chemical companies but who recognize they can afford to not operate as toxically as they used to do. They are working from within to make it more sensible for the rest of the world, but progress is hindered by the overwhelming momentum in the opposite direction remaining from those who are not on the same page at all.
tssva 4y ago
> We see what they have done with GitHub, for a start. Provide free hosting for countless FOSS projects?
- bayindirh 4y ago
  > Provide free hosting for countless FOSS projects? and provide the resulting source code to anybody regardless of the source and target license w/o consent via Copilot. Also, it was free for FOSS even way before Microsoft, so that part doesn't even count.
  - tssva 4y ago
    > and provide the resulting source code to anybody regardless of the source and target license w/o consent via Copilot. That is one opinion. Mine is they used the code as allowed under the Github terms of use and/or the principles of fair use. Ultimately it doesn't matter what either of us think. A court will decide.
deleted 4y ago
[deleted]